Trouble sleeping & How to improve

[Inno]

I've been using an Oura ring for the past 3 months, and one thing that stands out quite consistently is the quality of my sleep. 
 

For the past months almost every night my sleep is interrupted and I wake up in the middle of the night, sometimes even 2-3 times.

 

I don't wake up energized at all. I feel the amount of sleep I get is sufficient enough not to have a terrible effect on me, however I would say it's not optimal. For reference I'm getting around 1 hr of Deep Sleep on average. 

How is your sleep? Have you struggled with it? What actions have you taken in order to improve? 

@Phil I remember you saying somewhere you sleep a lot less than 8hrs. How's that going for you? Any tips? 

[Mandy]

I know that measurements tools can be insightful but when it comes to measuring sleep, I'd be mindful with what thoughts and expectations you start making about it. I learned when I had a newborn that I was repeatedly calculating what sleep I got, then I was having expectations of feeling good that day based on how I thought I slept and then it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. With my second baby I didn't do it at all and I don't even remember being that tired. Optimize light levels, make it as dark as you can, get rid of all electronic devices in your room, cover up any lights, even little ones, exercise during the day, get fresh air, get time outside, watch the sunset outside if you can, cut out or cut way back on caffeine and take none of it after noon if you do use it. Even caffeine use in the morning will affect sleep. Cherries, cherry juice at nice is natural source of melatonin, and eating good carbs that aren't hard to digest, like a banana at night or later in the day can help you sleep more soundly. 

[Phil]

On 9/11/2023 at 6:43 AM, Inno said:

 I remember you saying somewhere you sleep a lot less than 8hrs. How's that going for you? Any tips? 

I wouldn’t frame sleep as something to try to do or strive for improvement with directly. I’d approach it indirectly. I’d focus on overall well being instead, specifically discord & alignment and expression, and then ‘sleep / a solid night of deep uninterrupted sleep’ body wise will be the natural outcome or result. The body ‘knows’ what to do, it’s more of a ‘getting out of its way’, or, non-resistant allowing. 

 

It’s going great, thanks. The aspects which come to mind as to the difference that’s transpired in regard to sleep are… daily meditation, well being lifestyle, using a dreamboard, expression (emptying of discord), communion via emotional guidance (wholeness), investigation of what’s a belief and what’s actually true (clarity), sincerity / honesty (authenticity or Being), healthy relationships, mushroom retreats and general openness & loving (vulnerability). 

 

It’s impossible to say exactly how or even if these result in or correlate with a difference with sleep, because we never actually experience sleep. So I’d say these have everything to do with seeing the truth of the implied duality of awake & asleep and simply being reality / nondual wakefulness or what is already the case or actuality. These did seem to result in a brain body rewiring, which probably sounds weird but is uber natural, extremely pleasant & blissful, seems to be historically referred to as cessation and is indicative of well being or source if you will. There doesn’t seem to be much info available on the rewiring. The only person I’ve heard mention this is Rupert Spira. I can say it’s a ‘real phenomena’, actually happens & is super awesome. The most fundamental aspect I can point to is that thought simply does not define perception. Happy to answer any questions that might come up. Again, a lot of what I’m saying probably sounds weird or out there, so I’m applying brevity really. 

 

 

On a practical note here’s GPT’s suggestions on getting a better night’s sleep…

 

Create a Consistent Sleep Schedule: Go to bed and wake up at the same time every day, even on weekends. This helps regulate your body's internal clock.

 

Create a Relaxing Bedtime Routine: Develop a calming pre-sleep routine to signal to your body that it's time to wind down. This might include activities like reading a book, taking a warm bath, or practicing relaxation exercises.

 

Make Your Sleep Environment Comfortable: Ensure your bedroom is conducive to sleep. This includes a comfortable mattress and pillows, a dark and cool room, and minimal noise and light.

 

Limit Screen Time: The blue light emitted by screens can interfere with your body's production of melatonin, a hormone that regulates sleep. Avoid screens (phones, tablets, computers) for at least an hour before bedtime.

 

Watch Your Diet: Avoid heavy meals, caffeine, and alcohol close to bedtime. These can disrupt sleep patterns. It's also a good idea to limit your intake of liquids in the evening to reduce nighttime awakenings to use the restroom.

 

Regular Exercise: Engage in regular physical activity, but try to avoid vigorous exercise close to bedtime. Exercise can help with sleep, but doing it too late in the day may make falling asleep difficult.

 

Manage Stress: Stress and anxiety can lead to interrupted sleep. Practice relaxation techniques such as deep breathing, meditation, or yoga to manage stress.

 

Limit Naps: If you take daytime naps, keep them short (20-30 minutes) and earlier in the day to avoid interfering with nighttime sleep.

 

Be Mindful of Medications: Some medications can disrupt sleep. Check with your healthcare provider if you suspect your medications are affecting your sleep.

 

Address Underlying Issues: If you consistently have trouble with interrupted sleep, it's essential to address any underlying sleep disorders or medical conditions. Consult a healthcare professional for a proper evaluation.

 

 

All of that is indicative of my day to day and is largely what I mean by well being, with the addition of awareness of discord & alignment / how thoughts feel not how what thoughts are about feels (as in objects of perception), and dispelling beliefs therein. That is the single most relevant aspect imo. 

 

[Inno]

@Mandy I agree, it is easy to start expecting to feel a certain way based on the data from the wearable. I don't think it affects me that much tbh, it's just something I've noticed being quite consistent is the waking up during night's sleep.
Otherwise it's kinda weird, I've just spent 3-4 days in the mountaints with a friend and he was doing night shifts. I ended up getting to bed later than my usual hours- think 12:30-02:00 AM and getting up at 9. The data from the Oura was terrible- 4-5hrs of sleep in total, however I did not feel bad during the day. Did not even want to nap or anything, was quite alert and calm. Maybe it has a lot to do with the environment and the change as well, because the day I got back to my routine and went to work I felt extremely tired in the early afternoon. 
Thank you for the practical recommendations, I will look into them. I do drink coffee and try to limit my intake to be up until 3 PM, maybe I should try to push it back a bit. 

[Phil]

@Inno

It has to do with me, my, mine. The separate self of thought is the resistance. 

Energy is not coming to a separate self from sleeping & eating.

There isn’t the duality of energy and a self. 

 

These could be thought of as conditions. Sleep could be thought of as unconditional. A less than great night’s sleep could be thought of as the resistance of attempting to bring conditions to unconditional / trying to hang on to the conditions (beliefs). 

 

“Energy”.

 

What if, so to speak, you’ve been dying every single night and are literally born again every single morning….all is anew… 

but this is missed via the overlaying of thoughts about another me which sleeps and is awake, alive, thinking, doing, which has things, knows things, etc. These are thoughts and thoughts are just appearing… perception is appearing…sensation is appearing… all apparent - isn’t it so in direct experience? Ever notice none of ‘it’ is ‘there’… without you? And that the difference fun & happiness wise between work and not work is… “you”?

[Inno]

It appears it all boils down to discord/alignment and "the work", doesn't it? :) 

 

It makes sense though, I've had good nights sleep and in most cases I did not intentionally do anything for it, so kinda happens naturally/when out of the way. 

 

Quote

It’s impossible to say exactly how or even if these result in or correlate with a difference with sleep, because we never actually experience sleep. So I’d say these have everything to do with seeing the truth of the implied duality of awake & asleep and simply being reality / nondual wakefulness or what is already the case or actuality.

Yes, sleep is not experienced directly I guess. What is experienced is the moment prior to falling asleep, as well as the moment after waking up. What about dreams though? 

Quote

 These did seem to result in a brain body rewiring, which probably sounds weird but is uber natural, extremely pleasant & blissful, seems to be historically referred to as cessation and is indicative of well being or source if you will. There doesn’t seem to be much info available on the rewiring. The only person I’ve heard mention this is Rupert Spira. I can say it’s a ‘real phenomena’, actually happens & is super awesome. The most fundamental aspect I can point to is that thought simply does not define perception. Happy to answer any questions that might come up. Again, a lot of what I’m saying probably sounds weird or out there, so I’m applying brevity really. 

This sounds very interesting. Can you explain more about that rewiring? I've never heard anyone talk about it.  

Is this the video you refer to? 

"Thought simply does not define perception" in what regard do you mention that? Does it mean that all body related experience is still experience of perception/sensation? And also, since you've barely heard anyone talk about it, do you think it's possible for everyone? Have you met anyone else experiencing this? Is it a "part of the way" so to speak? 

Also, would you be open to share your daily routine? As to when do you wake up, diet, sleep, exercise, etc? Not necessary if too personal of course. :) 

 

Quote

It has to do with me, my, mine. The separate self of thought is the resistance. 

Energy is not coming to a separate self from sleeping & eating.

There isn’t the duality of energy and a self. 

It seems like the separate self is being accused/demonised in a lot of the non-dual circles. Why does it have to do with me/my/mine and not with simply misunderstood thought/beliefs? Or does it mean that all such thought/beliefs are based on underlying "me/my/mine" beliefs?

 

Quote

What if, so to speak, you’ve been dying every single night and are literally born again every single morning….all is anew… 

but this is missed via the overlaying of thoughts about another me which sleeps and is awake, alive, thinking, doing, which has things, knows things, etc. These are thoughts and thoughts are just appearing… perception is appearing…sensation is appearing… all apparent - isn’t it so in direct experience? Ever notice none of ‘it’ is ‘there’… without you? And that the difference fun & happiness wise between work and not work is… “you”?

I will have to reflect on this for a while:) Thanks! 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Inno said:

It appears it all boils down to discord/alignment and "the work", doesn't it? 🙂

 

It makes sense though, I've had good nights sleep and in most cases I did not intentionally do anything for it, so kinda happens naturally/when out of the way. 

Totally. 

 

1 hour ago, Inno said:

Yes, sleep is not experienced directly I guess. What is experienced is the moment prior to falling asleep, as well as the moment after waking up. What about dreams though?

A nighttime dream isn’t really separate from or different than this dream referred to as a universe or reality. A nighttime dream is like a finite dream within an infinite dream, and is the reconciliation of any beliefs about finite, with the truth of infinite. Similarly ineffable infinite intelligence is being the lens-sphere and experiencing itself as appearing “thoughts”. Dreams thought to happen in a brain so to speak are the same. Like finite experiential echos that are the natural result of infinite being the spheres, or what I science wise mistakenly referred to as the Big Bang. Or biblically speaking, in God’s image (imagination) as it were. The ‘message’ of nighttime dreams therein, while the content or imagery can vary, is always one way or another the message of the truth of your infinitude & unconditionality. A lot, maybe the vast majority, of the content of nighttime dreams is a reconciliation of the duality of self & other. 

 

1 hour ago, Inno said:

Is this the video you refer to? 

I don’t think so. I don’t think I’ve seen that one. The ‘brain’ re-wiring wasn’t the topic of a video as far as I can remember. It was just something that came up in a conversation. If I remember what that video was I’ll link it here.

 

1 hour ago, Inno said:

"Thought simply does not define perception" in what regard do you mention that?

The key inspection wise is the directness. Awareness is directly aware of thought and directly aware of perception. 

Thought is never perceived as in visually seen or audibly heard (‘by the eyes and ears’). 

Perception is never thought as in thunk. Though believing thoughts or thought attachment can make it seem so and this is the veiling of truth. 

 

1 hour ago, Inno said:

Does it mean that all body related experience is still experience of perception/sensation?

The experience of a body is that of sensation and the labeling of sensation with the thought, ‘body’. 

Therein a body is never actually perceived. The thought & sensation are experienced.

But again, the believing of thoughts vs the inspection of direct experience can make it seem so by leaving it to assumption.

 

1 hour ago, Inno said:

And also, since you've barely heard anyone talk about it, do you think it's possible for everyone?

It is. What anyone thinks is irrelevant. Dispelling beliefs about an everyone and or there being a thinker via inspection of direct experience, or, what’s actual is what’s relevant. It doesn’t matter if it’s possible or not for a trillion people. It’s possible in your direct experience. That’s all that’s relevant. 

 

1 hour ago, Inno said:

Have you met anyone else experiencing this? Is it a "part of the way" so to speak? 

That wouldn’t be possible given the nature of direct experience. 

But in the apparent separate selves sense, no I have not. 

 

1 hour ago, Inno said:

Is it a "part of the way" so to speak? 

In the progressive sense, that there is someone on a path, it could be thought of that way yes. 

In direct experience however that is a thought about there being someone on the way to something. 

 

1 hour ago, Inno said:

Also, would you be open to share your daily routine? As to when do you wake up, diet, sleep, exercise, etc? Not necessary if too personal of course. 🙂

I don’t mind at all. It varies. I enjoy a lot of well being activities but I don’t necessarily adhere to a routine or schedule. Last week I went to sleep around 1 or 2 am and got up around 6am. This week it’s been more like midnight to 6. Keep in mind these are hindsight thoughts, just sharing what’s happnin. There’s no intention here to sleep less or more. I also never nap. Not via an intention not to, just by not being tired. If I was, I’d probably sleep more and or nap. 

 

The Loophole shake is the basis or backbone of my diet. It’s cheaper, easier, quicker and healthier than other option imo. Hence “loophole”. In addition I eat primarily whole foods, fruits, vegetables, nuts, salads, vegan protein bars and little to no meat, dairy, caffeine or sugar. And sometimes, maybe once a month or so I eat ‘normal’ stuff, whatever that is. Like if I go out to eat with someone I eat whatever sounds great at that restaurant.

 

I exercise more or less every morning. Cardio on an elliptical and weights via a Bowflex. Also some of the work I do is seated on computers and some is manual labor, as far as calorie intake and expending. 

 

1 hour ago, Inno said:

It seems like the separate self is being accused/demonised in a lot of the non-dual circles. Why does it have to do with me/my/mine and not with simply misunderstood thought/beliefs? Or does it mean that all such thought/beliefs are based on underlying "me/my/mine" beliefs?

The separate self is thoughts believed, not a separate self. This is what suffering is. That a separate self is being demonized is a thought (about there being separate selves, which there isn’t). Just as a reference, this is why “The Buddha said” the first noble truth is life is suffering. Initially that might be taken as ‘there’s just suffering in life and that’s how it is, and I have to find my way to accepting it’. But “life” is a conceptualization of the actuality. That which “has a life”, “my life”, is the separate self of thought. The conceptualization is like an overlay of thought, a veiling of the actuality that there is no such thing as “life”. Similar to ‘body’, ‘life’ is a thought, and that thought does not define perception. Me, my, mine all imply separation, a separate self, and again that is what suffering is. Not pain per se, but suffering. Existential, mental, anguish, etc. 

 

What you’re questioning & pointing out here is very insightful. This is how the term “neo advaita” came about. Though attachment is a tricky ‘thing’. There are even, albeit apparently, self proclaimed teachers of nonduality (and “beyond”) which use the term neo advaita in a derogatory manor towards separate selves, without being conscious that they are, and that this is based on being identified as, the separate self of thoughts. The term means ‘new not two’, which of course doesn’t make sense as it would be a second, and nonduality already points to no second ness. Hence acknowledging emotions experienced vs thought attachment or believing thoughts about a second or separate self, and therein emptying of discordant beliefs about being separate (what suffering is / the discord of such thoughts). It arises via the overlooking of believing self referential thoughts and therein meditation is most unfortunately ignorantly discredited, happiness is believed to be the result of something in a future, etc, etc. Thought attachment is a slippery slope.  

 

1 hour ago, Inno said:

I will have to reflect on this for a while:) Thanks! 

🙏🏼