Beware of The Comfortable Beliefs

[Orb]

Any belief that feels like home, any belief you take comfort in, is actually the belief veiling the true home, which is homelessness. The son of man has no place to lay his head. 

 

In this way, the "work" becomes simple, any belief you take refuge in is the delusion. 

 

Not everyone is ready to hear this, sometimes the comfortable beliefs are like training wheels so you can learn to ride along with life without them one day. If so, I'd sing those beliefs as loud as possible! Until they become obselete.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Orb

[SuesserEsel]

Then why beware?

[Orb]

@SuesserEsel spiritual ego

[SuesserEsel]

@Orb I don't understand

[Orb]

@SuesserEsel the beliefs held onto create the sense of a believer or....self. 

 

the more beliefs are let go of, the more the self fades away. 

 

the more the self fades away, the more expansive experience feels. 

 

BUT, there are still even subtler beliefs that can be held onto that continue creating the sense of self. 

 

Go into the unknown. 

 

If there's any framework/thought that feels like your go-to thought in order to feel grounded, it's actually the thought itself that perpetuates delusion. 

 

This can be very triggering, because it's not at all what the ego wants.

[Devin]

This is tricky, because the belief that there can be delusion is also a belief.

[Devin]

This is my gripe with Buddhism, it's sort of like ranking states or experiences, good vs bad sort of thing. Like seeking this Buddhist peace is cool, but so is everything else if you want it.

 

Obviously when I no longer want to suffer I seek higher ground for refuge, which this threads topic is a great tool for that, but I'm not sure about that when you're enjoying a "delusion".

 

Sort of like the Ox thing, "adhered to, and abandoned, adhered to, and abandoned, adhered to, and abandoned"

[Orb]

21 minutes ago, Devin said:

This is my gripe with Buddhism, it's sort of like ranking states or experiences, good vs bad sort of thing. Like seeking this Buddhist peace is cool, but so is everything else if you want it.

 

Obviously when I no longer want to suffer I seek higher ground for refuge, which this threads topic is a great tool for that, but I'm not sure about that when you're enjoying a "delusion".

 

Sort of like the Ox thing, "adhered to, and abandoned, adhered to, and abandoned, adhered to, and abandoned"

All this thread is about is not taking refuge in any belief, it's not about good or bad, Buddhism, or states.

[Devin]

14 minutes ago, Orb said:

All this thread is about is not taking refuge in any belief, it's not about good or bad, Buddhism, or states.

Don't you think that implies that refuge in belief is bad though?

[Orb]

36 minutes ago, Devin said:

Don't you think that implies that refuge in belief is bad though?

Depends on how you read into that statement. I wasn't implying that, just saying any refuge in belief is delusion no matter what. 

 

I don't believe it's bad or good, but looking into the mechanics of it, I see clearly that it is the root of suffering. 

 

Even at a subtle level you can awaken, feel into Consciousness and still there's a lingering fear of letting it all go 🙂.

[Devin]

3 minutes ago, Orb said:

Depends on how you read into that statement. I wasn't implying that, just saying any refuge in belief is delusion no matter what. 

 

I don't believe it's bad or good, but looking into the mechanics of it, I see clearly that it is the root of suffering. 

 

Even at a subtle level you can awaken, feel into Consciousness and still there's a lingering fear of letting it all go 🙂.

You ever not suffer while with beliefs?

 

It feels like aversion from suffering more than attraction to peace

[Orb]

5 minutes ago, Devin said:

You ever not suffer while with beliefs?

 

It feels like aversion from suffering more than attraction to peace

Writing down all beliefs that are comforting and questioning them is the opposite of aversion imo, I mean you're literally "facing" those beliefs, not averting from anything.

[Devin]

1 hour ago, Orb said:

Writing down all beliefs that are comforting and questioning them is the opposite of aversion imo, I mean you're literally "facing" those beliefs, not averting from anything.

 

I think it would be aversion from what is, including having beliefs.

 

It's where I don't understand Phil's teachings, although he says there's no understanding or understanderer it seems like that's what he does, like getting all the words right, trying to not believe or contradict, it seems more like aversion rather than attraction. Like trying to escape what is(including beliefs).

Edited August 15, 2023 by Devin

[Devin]

Like going towards meditation or something that you feel peace from is one thing but obsoleting beliefs for peace seems more like aversion, like running away from flames as opposed to running toward an ice cream truck.

 

If the meditation on the thoughts and dispelling them, if that act is what you seek, not the result of the act then it would appear to be attraction to me rather than aversion. It just sounds like you're seeking the after part.

 

Beliefs cause pain and suffering, but when you suffer there's usually something or some direction to go that is peaceful or enjoyable, dispelling the belief may be it and sometimes is, but I enjoy some beliefs, it's fun to play.

 

I don't know, the dispelling beliefs usually isn't what brings me peace or joy though, dispelling seems rather to just bring more like another layer or chapter.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Devin

[Orb]

27 minutes ago, Devin said:

 Beliefs cause pain and suffering, but when you suffer there's usually something or some direction to go that is peaceful or enjoyable, dispelling the belief may be it and sometimes is, but I enjoy some beliefs, it's fun to play.

The word Direction is a really telling word, direction is what the mind loves, it loves feeling like it's going somewhere, that mode of operation feels familiar to it. That's actually why the suffering perpetuates, because the ego loves to chase its own tail, loves to suffer and then move in the "direction" away from it and then do it over and over again. 

 

27 minutes ago, Devin said:

I don't know, the dispelling beliefs usually isn't what brings me peace or joy though, dispelling seems rather to just bring more like another layer or chapter.

Dispelling beliefs will never bring peace or joy to the "Me", because the "Me" is the Ego 😂

Edited August 15, 2023 by Orb

[Devin]

40 minutes ago, Orb said:

The word Direction is a really telling word, direction is what the mind loves, it loves feeling like it's going somewhere, that mode of operation feels familiar to it. That's actually why the suffering perpetuates, because the ego loves to chase its own tail, loves to suffer and then move in the "direction" away from it and then do it over and over again. 

 

Dispelling beliefs will never bring peace or joy to the "Me", because the "Me" is the Ego 😂

You don't think that's aversion from ego? I agree it includes "suffering" my point was an aversion from suffering rather than attraction to peace.

 

We got into a pickle a while back and my girlfriend was all upset, and I tell her I actually like it when challenges pop up sometimes, it's like a puzzle.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Devin

[Orb]

The thread is back 🙂

[Devin]

You know how LOA talks about if you focus on what you don't want you'll get what you don't want, to me it's like that, if you want joy and peace just focus on that, not ending suffering.

 

You have all kinds of beliefs right, now look at the sky right now, there's joy and peace right now.

 

22 hours ago, SuesserEsel said:

Then why beware?

 

That's what this comment evoked for me.

 

You can focus on watching out for the ego/beliefs/suffering, or focus on joy and peace.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Devin

[Phil]

15 hours ago, Devin said:

 

I think it would be aversion from what is, including having beliefs.

 

It's where I don't understand Phil's teachings, although he says there's no understanding or understanderer it seems like that's what he does, like getting all the words right, trying to not believe or contradict, it seems more like aversion rather than attraction. Like trying to escape what is(including beliefs).

Lot of beliefs behind that statement which could be questioned, if interested. 

 

On a housekeeping note, when you talk about a fellow member please slap an @ and their member name.

Thanks.🤍

 

@Orb

Great thread. Clearly effective. 🤍

[Devin]

25 minutes ago, Phil said:

Lot of beliefs behind that statement which could be questioned, if interested. 

 

Wouldn't it be a belief to believe anything is a belief? Like Isn't all communication even internal dialog based on the belief of separation, internal dialogue would be believing thoughts or feelings are separate from "source", like any question is based on the belief of separation(something to know(finite)).

Edited August 16, 2023 by Devin