How can “smart” people do that

[Rose]

I really don’t understand how is it that some high IQ people can be religious. Or how some high EQ people can have twisted political views.

 

For example, there used to be this one russian actress whose Instagram I really liked. Her posts were always full of meaning to me, positive, put you in a good mood. But now she is supporting putler and saying how Ukrainians are nazis. 
 

How is it possible? 

 

[Mandy]

The belief that intelligence is possessed by people is false. The belief that having intelligence is "good" and keeps one of of trouble is false because the first belief about intelligence being possessed is false. Which means anyone could completely surprise you at any time, and there's no question of trusting anyone. You could say "trust no one", but that might seem a little nihilistic, if Source/God/Invisible-All-Seeing-Friend In-The-Sky is known to be "no one", though, it means nothing gets between you and intuition in real time. No concept of "oh but he's such a good guy" or "but she's highly regarded as being the best in her field!" or but instead you stay open to not knowing, and know by not knowing, which is the magic of intuition. 

[Phil]

Look at your hand; that’s intelligence. 

‘My hand’ is a thought. That’s intelligence too. 

 

 

[Rose]

8 hours ago, Mandy said:

The belief that intelligence is possessed by people is false.

If it’s not possessed by people, then why do some people say wise things and others don’t? Why do some people invent phones and make scientific discoveries, while others can’t do that? 

[Rose]

8 hours ago, Mandy said:

nothing gets between you and intuition in real time

How is my intuition going to help me pass a graduate level calculus exam if I don’t study for it?

Edited July 3, 2023 by Rose

[Mandy]

8 hours ago, Rose said:

If it’s not possessed by people, then why do some people say wise things and others don’t? Why do some people invent phones and make scientific discoveries, while others can’t do that? 

Wise or foolish is just your judgement at any given time. How many innovators were made fun of and called fools, but later wise?  At best what seems wise is based on how it feels, how it resonates. I live by a historic house where someone who grew up there is honored and famed for having made an important life saving scientific/medical discovery. Turns out his father worked in the field of medicine, he was raised with wealth and opportunity at a time when many didn't have much, and he won a coin flip to apprentice with the person who was already on the heels of the discovery. Discovery is just life working out. Yes there's a lot of focus, passion and momentum involved but it's also about  being in the right place at the right time. Many discoveries are accidental. People might be passionate about and deeply curious about a field but they have no idea why or what will come of it. Demanding that something specific come of it often closes their minds to anything new, which is exactly what a discovery is, something we didn't know. 

 

8 hours ago, Rose said:

How is my intuition going to help me pass a graduate level calculus exam if I don’t study for it?

Why would you not study for it? All the exam is, is the moment. Maybe intuition draws you toward the textbook when you are out of habit watching Netflix, and guides you to the certain section in the book that's covered heavily on the exam? Maybe it guides you to study when you're feeling most receptive and attentive. Maybe it helps you ace the test in 30 hours of studying instead of 100 to just pass it? But no one knows, that's the beauty of intuition. You can't demand it take you anywhere, but it's always going forward toward what's wanted. Intuition is always working out for the whole, and for true desires.  If passing the exam isn't the path of least resistance to the core desire, maybe it guides you toward something else. Maybe that's Netflix. You never know, that's the beauty. Intuition is always right place/ right time. With that said, there's nothing wrong with scheduling in 2 hours of study time every morning, intuition makes itself known randomly as you go about doing what you intend to do for the most part. I'm just open to edits, and feedback, I check my gut feeling, I'm open to change course or getting an impulse out of the blue sometimes. 

[Phil]

@Rose

Are you religious? 

That is, do you hold beliefs about reality based only on what other people believe / say?

 

[Rose]

15 hours ago, Phil said:

@Rose

Are you religious? 

That is, do you hold beliefs about reality based only on what other people believe / say?

 

I am not, I like to see if for myself. Why? 

[Phil]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:43 PM, Rose said:

I really don’t understand how is it that some high IQ people can be religious.

Ever seen understanding or intelligence?

On 7/2/2023 at 12:43 PM, Rose said:

Or how some high EQ people can have twisted political views.

Emotion?

On 7/2/2023 at 12:43 PM, Rose said:

 

For example, there used to be this one russian actress whose Instagram I really liked. Her posts were always full of meaning to me, positive, put you in a good mood. But now she is supporting putler and saying how Ukrainians are nazis. 

Meaning?

Positive?

…you?

 

On 7/2/2023 at 12:43 PM, Rose said:

How is it possible? 

It’s simple. It isn’t. 

You share some beliefs such as the religion of materialism, yet pick and choose, apparently. 

 

What would you say to someone who believes in matter, intelligence and understanding?

What would you say to someone who doesn’t hold those same beliefs? 

 

What’s ignorance? What if these ‘things’ are the obscuring? 

What if this is precisely how and why the world as it were continues to be ‘inhumane’?

The human condition. 

War, violence, etc. 

 

I mean, I’m sure it’ll all change once we understand, reach a higher level of intelligence and become more conscious. In the future. 

Right? 

 

[Space4This]

 

There aren't many good reasons outside appealing to popular language to make strong distinctions between spirituality and religion. "Spirituality", or the modern Western conception of it, is a highly individualistic type of spirituality that doesn't have a strong rooting in tradition, community or collective wisdom. It takes the bare essentials of spirituality (the search for something higher) and leaves the seekers adrift without a firm orienting framework or social support network, having to assemble their own peculiar set of beliefs and practices while their friends and family have no idea what they're doing and are questioning their sanity.

 

I think this modern Western spirituality needs to evolve to be more alike the organized religions so that the followers are not left out in the cold having to simultaneously re-invent the wheel and indeed risk their sanity. Because this clandestine spirituality isn't just lonely; it's outright dangerous, for the same reason that you don't give a knife to a child before you know they can handle it.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Space4This

[Phil]

@Space4This

The conception isn’t rightly attributable to a Western.

Clandestine, risk, individualistic, lonely, insanity and dangerous aren’t rightly attributable to spirituality. 

Spirituality framed as the search for something higher (seeking, becoming, etc) is egocentric salesmanship not spirituality.

These are beliefs about spirituality, while spirituality is about questioning these beliefs. 

[Space4This]

15 hours ago, Phil said:

@Space4This

The conception isn’t rightly attributable to a Western.

Clandestine, risk, individualistic, lonely, insanity and dangerous aren’t rightly attributable to spirituality. 

Spirituality framed as the search for something higher (seeking, becoming, etc) is egocentric salesmanship not spirituality.

These are beliefs about spirituality, while spirituality is about questioning these beliefs. 

Yes, I'm familiar with the conception of spirituality as pointing to the mystical dimension of life; of the direct knowing of the Absolute, of knowing yourself beyond any limited identity or concept, etc. But would it not be good if we could practice our mysticism in a real-life community that understands us, that is not on the fringes of society, and where we can seek guidance from not just one or a few eccentric people, but from a deep wisdom tradition that provides a comprehensive "ecology of practices" and that addresses various common traps in this kind of work? I would've appreciated that when I started meditating a few years ago. I didn't know how serious this stuff actually is.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Space4This

[Phil]

@Space4This

If there was a church of not knowing, in which the answer to every single question was ‘we don’t know’, would you attend?

[Space4This]

17 hours ago, Phil said:

@Space4This

If there was a church of not knowing, in which the answer to every single question was ‘we don’t know’, would you attend?

Yes. I bet they would teach you how to meditate too.

[Rose]

On 7/7/2023 at 4:26 PM, Space4This said:

Yes. I bet they would teach you how to meditate too.

😂😂😂

[Rose]

@Space4This I’ve been asked this question recently - “you’re not religious, so what do you believe in” and I said that I am spiritual and I believe spirituality is something one has to discover for themselves. There is lots of schools of thought there that one can learn from though. Generally it starts with the discovery and understanding of oneself. De-programming all the conditioning we’ve acquired through our environment, expanding our level of consciousness. 

 

Religion to me is mindless rituals. That don’t lead to discovery of yourself and exploring your consciousness. Don’t encourage self-inquiry. Sure, it’s more structured and there are more rules. Spirituality is more free flowing and open ended, because it’s so sophisticated.

[Rose]

@Space4This that being said, I do agree that in North America spirituality is complete and total crap. I think it’s because people are too focused on material things (because cost of living is so high) and they can’t fully devote themselves to it. 
 

Plus spirituality requires to first really work and fix your psychology. Psychologists are expensive here and they are shit too - they are also heavily regulated here, so there is only that much they can do (have to follow the book and the rules, vs I think psychology is more of an intuitive art)
 

So basically there is a shit ton of pseudo spiritual people who are using spirituality to fix their damaged psychology.. I mean look at Leo Gura.. 

 

A lot of the spiritual people are also completely ungrounded.. they fly off to a woo-woo land, again - because they are usually isolated individuals without any kind of spiritual community to keep them grounded/sane/be able to relate to people 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Rose