Meta-Resource

[MetaSage]

A good example of “meta-source” is:

• Sloww.co.

The author compiles, and consumes from, very diverse sources of information.

Pretty useful. Stage yellow website.

You might want to head over his reading list.

[Faith]

@MetaSage Thank you. I'll have to check it out!😊

[Joseph Maynor]

 

[Joseph Maynor]

Take a look at this map.  It's a good one.  I don't know if I agree with Stage 6 but I haven't really studied the nuances of what she's saying yet either.   Look at Stage 5/6 too.  Her 2 highest stages are as follows:

Stage 5/6: Construct-Aware / Ego-Aware / Magician / Alchemist (fifth person perspective and beyond)
https://www.sloww.co/ego-development-theory-cook-greuter/#edt-stage-5-6

Stage 6: Unitive (cosmic, ego-transcendent or witnessing perspective)
https://www.sloww.co/ego-development-theory-cook-greuter/#edt-stage-6

SOURCE

Susanne R. Cook-Greuter's 2013 Research Paper:
"Nine Levels Of Increasing Embrace In Ego Development: A Full-Spectrum Theory Of Vertical Growth And Meaning Making"

http://onesystemonevoice.com/resources/Cook-Greuter+9+levels+paper+new+1.1$2714+97p$5B1$5D.pdf

Edited November 6, 2023 by Joseph Maynor

[MetaSage]

41 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Take a look at this map.  It's a good one.  I don't know if I agree with Stage 6 but I haven't really studied the nuances of what she's saying yet either.   Look at Stage 5/6 too.  Her 2 highest stages are as follows:

Stage 5/6: Construct-Aware / Ego-Aware / Magician / Alchemist (fifth person perspective and beyond)
https://www.sloww.co/ego-development-theory-cook-greuter/#edt-stage-5-6

Stage 6: Unitive (cosmic, ego-transcendent or witnessing perspective)
https://www.sloww.co/ego-development-theory-cook-greuter/#edt-stage-6

SOURCE

Susanne R. Cook-Greuter's 2013 Research Paper:
"Nine Levels Of Increasing Embrace In Ego Development: A Full-Spectrum Theory Of Vertical Growth And Meaning Making"

http://onesystemonevoice.com/resources/Cook-Greuter+9+levels+paper+new+1.1$2714+97p$5B1$5D.pdf

 

Nice, thank you. At this point those stages are fun intellectual considerations. It's a useful model, not to be taken seriously in the end in my estimation, as any other model.

[Joseph Maynor]

13 hours ago, MetaSage said:

 

Nice, thank you. At this point those stages are fun intellectual considerations. It's a useful model, not to be taken seriously in the end in my estimation, as any other model.

 

Exactly.  I realize that you don't need thought or belief for spiritual enlightenment -- but if you don't consider enough thought the sneaky mind creates a thought system for you based on the limited ideas you do have.  It's like paradoxically, the more thought you consider the more you have a thought-less mind.  So, I study to keep my mind blank.  People who don't study or have a bugaboo regarding study I find have a secret ideology that they don't want to shake loose.  These are the people that just parrot the same thing over and over and it gets annoying.  I see some of these people on Leo's forum.  I won't name names.  Even the blank mind thing or enlightenment doesn't require thought or belief can become an ideology too, so that has to be watched out for.  All that does is create spiritual ego which causes suffering.  The ways around this problem are kinda tricky.  I'm working on finding a narrative that addresses the issues I raise above in my new video.  It hasn't been easy.  It starts to happen like this: the doctor sees the world through the eyes of a doctor, the lawyer sees the world through the eyes of a lawyer, the spiritual guru sees the world through the eyes of a spiritual guru.  These people are all hunkered-down.  But spiritual enlightenment is not about hunkering down.  If you squeeze spiritual enlightenment too hard, you lose it.  It's like somebody giving you such a big hug that they kill you.   Then the question is, well then how do we teach and share about it!  That's a good question.  I'm considering that question myself.  I'm done telling other people what to do, including even arguing about this stuff.  Sharing in itself is an imposition on others too.  You have to ask yourself, what motivates me to share about spiritual enlightenment?  

Edited November 6, 2023 by Joseph Maynor

[MetaSage]

On 11/6/2023 at 1:42 PM, Joseph Maynor said:

Exactly.  I realize that you don't need thought or belief for spiritual enlightenment -- but if you don't consider enough thought the sneaky mind creates a thought system for you too.  It's like paradoxically, the more thought you consider the more you have a thought-less mind.  So, I study to keep my mind blank.  People who don't study or have a bugaboo regarding study I find have a secret ideology that they don't want to shake loose.  These are the people that just parrot the same thing over and over and it gets annoying.  I see some of these people on Leo's forum.  I won't name names.  Even the blank mind thing or enlightenment doesn't require thought or belief can become an ideology too, so that has to be watched out for.  All that does is create spiritual ego which causes suffering.  The ways around this problem are kinda tricky.  I'm working on finding a narrative that addresses the issues I raise above in my new video.  It hasn't been easy.

 

What you say might be true, I don't know. I've heard that this "enlightenment" stuff isn't graspable and yet it's possible for one to get conscious of the absolute. If it is direct then only direct will do. It seems to me that anything that's relative is indirect, so even though focusing the mind and contemplating are useful, among other practices, they won't do it for you. The best we can do is contemplating and staying open.

 

😉😉 (can't delete the emojis)

Edited November 8, 2023 by MetaSage

[Joseph Maynor]

"The Construct-Aware Stage of Ego Development and It's Relation to The Fool Archetype" by Susanne-Cook Greuter

https://integral-review.org/issues/vol_14_no_1_cook-greuter_construct_aware_stage_and_the_fool_archetype.pdf

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Joseph Maynor

[MetaSage]

Susanne Jesus-Christ Greuter

[Joseph Maynor]

On 11/29/2023 at 4:33 PM, MetaSage said:

Susanne Jesus-Christ Greuter

I like Susanne-Cook Construct Aware/Magician Stage which is 5/6.  I disagree with how she frames the next stage which is the Unitive Stage 6.  I resonate with a lot of what she says up through and to 5/6.  The stage above Construct Aware/Magician only a few people know about I'm pretty sure.  And those people would have a hard time I think putting that into a narrative, but one might be tempted to try.  People tend to teach up to their point of development and then try to reach a little bit more.  It's cool when you can see that extra part, that reach, and go "that ain't it!"  I caught you!  Haha.  We all tend to do this because, naturally, we want to have an idea of what is the next stage than where we are.  

Edited December 10, 2023 by Joseph Maynor

[MetaSage]

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I like Susanne-Cook Construct Aware/Magician Stage which is 5/6.  I disagree with how she frames the next stage which is the Unitive Stage 6.  I resonate with a lot of what she says up through and to 5/6.  The stage above Construct Aware/Magician only a few people know about I'm pretty sure.  And those people would have a hard time I think putting that into a narrative, but one might be tempted to try.  People tend to teach up to their point of development and then try to reach a little bit more.  It's cool when you can see that extra part, that reach, and go "that ain't it!"  I caught you!  Haha.  We all tend to do this because, naturally, we want to have an idea of what is the next stage than where we are.  

Thanks for sharing.

[Joseph Maynor]

I thought I'd share this here as a better depiction of my current perspective when forcing myself to try to put a narrative together.  
 

 

[Phil]

@MetaSage

What about non-aversion?

 

As in non-aversion from feeling, source… by averting to resources?

 

Like meditation, acknowledging & feeling emotions, and emotional healing therein… as opposed to intellectual constructs?

Meditative self-discovery as opposed to abstract ideas & theories. 

 

I noticed there are many references to ‘students of life’ by that company (teacher?)…  whereas Buddha, The Enlightened One, shared that life is suffering. 

 

While it’s a beautiful looking website which seems have a lot of hard work gathering people’s ideas behind it, and does appear to be a very well run company, it all felt quite discordant and misleading and I’m just wondering how this reconciles. 

[MetaSage]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

@MetaSage

What about non-aversion?

 

As in non-aversion from feeling, source… by averting to resources?

 

Like meditation, acknowledging & feeling emotions, and emotional healing therein… as opposed to intellectual constructs?

Meditative self-discovery as opposed to abstract ideas & theories. 

 

I noticed there are many references to ‘students of life’ by that company (teacher?)…  whereas Buddha, The Enlightened One, shared that life is suffering. 

 

While it’s a beautiful looking website which seems have a lot of hard work gathering people’s ideas behind it, and does appear to be a very well run company, it all felt quite discordant and misleading and I’m just wondering how this reconciles. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

But yeah, that work is misleading as it is accumulating "fingers" (as in fingers pointing to the moon) and it is very abstract, not really based on authentic experience but hearsay. On the other hand, regardless of this enlightenment stuff, one may be able to have fun in learning new concepts about other topics, just as an educational tool. I like that it incorporates diverse teachings, but don't hold it as work that is "real", or based on something other than intellect.  

 

I've noticed intellectual people find comfort in their minds as it is a safe place where no real confrontation happens with one's own experience, by way of, say, meditation and emotional healing, as you mention, among other things. In a sense, it might be a defence mechanism, a way of distracting oneself.

[MetaSage]

@Phil something like that?

[Phil]

@MetaSage

It’s like an ice cream shop saying well, yeah… but regardless of this nutrition stuff, ice cream just tastes good! 

 

[MetaSage]

23 minutes ago, Phil said:

@MetaSage

It’s like an ice cream shop saying well, yeah… but regardless of this nutrition stuff, ice cream just tastes good! 

 

Pretty much.

 

Some occasional sweet here and there. 

[Phil]

@MetaSage

An ice cream shop saying never mind the naturally occuring fruits. 

[MetaSage]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

@MetaSage

An ice cream shop saying never mind the naturally occuring fruits. 

Yes, a place that you go to very sparingly and occasionally. But you don't go there to get nutritional substance but some artificial pleasure.