The Search For Meaning&Passion - Feeling Lost

[Valley2Mountain]

Couple of months ago, I left my engineering studies because I felt it wasn't it. The idea I had about it didn't match reality. After unwinding a bit, I wanted to experience something new in order to get inspiration for my next goal. So I joined a volunteering project, that creates engineering solutions for disabled people. Helping them to improve their day to day experience or get back to their hobbies they had prior to the injury. Also, I started to work part time as an instructor/teacher for kids in elementary school. Teaching them about nature.

 

The thing is, whenever I'm trying to retrieve insights from those experiences, like whether I like it or not or if I'd like to pursue any of these directions, I become clueless. I feel kind of apathetic towards them. I don't feel an excitement or a pull but neither resistance. I feel like I'm just participating in it, sometimes it's better and sometimes worse, but there is no overarching distinct feeling about any of these directions.

 

• Is my general emotional state overshadows my ability to reflect upon those directions?
• Should I even base my decisions on emotions? They seem slippery. One day you like something, other day you don't.
• Should I continue my search for a meaningful career and passion, or am I deluding myself into thinking that this thing exists somewhere there and I need to find it? For example, Cal Newport suggests just to pick something and master it. I don't understand though, how a person could pick something in a robotic fashion and master it, excluding his emotions from the equation. What do you think about it?

 

Generally I feel lost, tired, frustrated from this search as well as sincerely worried about my future. I'd like to stop searching and start already to master something in life...

 

Edited May 28, 2022 by Valley2Mountain

[Phil]

7 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

• Is my general emotional state overshadows my ability to reflect upon those directions?

Try also reflecting on the emotion directly (as compared to the thoughts about which direction is desired). I’d put the directions being considered on flash cards and have the emotional scale in front of me, and then relax, bring awareness to seeing, hearing, breathing, presence, and I’d look at each flash card one at a time and then the scale, and allow the recognition of which emotion is felt. (Not by the thoughts / directions, but the thoughts which are arising). Then some thoughts will arise.  If not, I’d drop it, go do something I like and or love, ideally an activity I love most. If at a loss, go for a walk and bring attention to nature, and the profundity of not knowing. Then later I’d give it another go. 

7 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

• Should I even base my decisions on emotions? They seem slippery. One day you like something, other day you don't.

Another way to frame, like and don’t like are preferences, whereas emotion is prior as guidance with respect to how the preferences feel. 

If it resonates, allow it to be seen there isn’t my decisions, there is an experience of, a happening of, decisions. Feel for some space vs ‘stuckness’ there. Again, if that is initially discordant,  I would spend time away from the making of the decision doing what lights you up / takes your mind off of it. 

7 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

• Should I continue my search for a meaningful career and passion, or am I deluding myself into thinking that this thing exists somewhere there and I need to find it? For example, Cal Newport suggests just to pick something and master it. I don't understand though, how a person could pick something in a robotic fashion and master it, excluding his emotions from the equation. What do you think about it?

‘Part of where I’m goin, is knowin where I’m comin from”. 

 

One aspect of the ‘dropping it’ and doing what you love, what lights you up, is a natural occurring clearing of ‘cloud thoughts’ in the obscuring the clear sky sense. Compare how these resonate: 

Should I continue my search, am I deluding myself into thinking this thing exists somewhere there and I need to find it.

and

I am the search and the searcher, the search is not an adversary but a gift. In accordance with direct experience, thoughts are appearing. I can’t really delude a myself, because I am myself. The delusion would the ‘my’ of ‘my thinking’. That’s where ‘the ego’ slips in, and thus it seems the emotional guidance pertains to the direction(s), when it’s much more intimate, pertaining only to the arising thoughts about.

 

Also maybe Cal’s way, if that is accurate of his suggestion, works for Cal. For you, feel the spaciousness of the variety of approaches available.  

 

[Valley2Mountain]

Thank you Phil for the recommendations.

On 5/28/2022 at 5:29 PM, Phil said:

‘Part of where I’m goin, is knowin where I’m comin from”. 

Cool song😉 What context did you attach this line in?

 

If I understood you correctly, emotional guidance is referred to the thoughts arising from thinking about the directions and not from the directions themselves?

 

On 5/28/2022 at 5:29 PM, Phil said:

and I’d look at each flash card one at a time and then the scale, and allow the recognition of which emotion is felt. (Not by the thoughts / directions, but the thoughts which are arising). Then some thoughts will arise.  If not, I’d drop it, go do something I like and or love, ideally an activity I love most. If at a loss, go for a walk and bring attention to nature, and the profundity of not knowing. Then later I’d give it another go. 

This protocol consists of two parts? Firstly, I recognize the emotion that arise from each direction. Then I reflect on the thoughts that come out?

[Phil]

On 5/31/2022 at 8:10 AM, Valley2Mountain said:

Thank you Phil for the recommendations.

Cool song😉 What context did you attach this line in?

Sorry! Missed this reply. 

Meaningfulness & passion are already & are always readily available, as readily obvious that life is the purpose of life. Just a way to frame it, to communicate… these are of the heart and are veiled by the mind, veiled by the conceptualization of a my life purpose. When ‘looked for’ cognitively, it’s always missed, because ‘cognitively’ is a conceptualization too. What’s being conceptualized is precisely what’s wanted… the feeling of meaningful, not meaning, and the emotion passion, not a me and a finding of my purpose resulting in a my passion. 

On 5/28/2022 at 6:04 AM, Valley2Mountain said:

• Is my general emotional state overshadows my ability to reflect upon those directions?
• Should I even base my decisions on emotions? They seem slippery. One day you like something, other day you don't.
• Should I continue my search for a meaningful career and passion, or am I deluding myself into thinking that this thing exists somewhere there and I need to find it? For example, Cal Newport suggests just to pick something and master it. I don't understand though, how a person could pick something in a robotic fashion and master it, excluding his emotions from the equation. What do you think about it?

“States” is Self conceptualization, and “my emotional state” is like a final nail in the conceptualization coffin. Suppressed thought attachment. Denial of suffering.  A pluralization of singularity right out the git. If there were a book about how to stay asleep, it would be called “States”. When habitual, it goes unnoticed. But when earnest, one does not like how one is feeling (so to speak). When “my emotional state” is already missed in that it is a self conceptualization, a “self” referential thought… that this is just a thought… an unnecessary seemingly secondary Self conceptualization is believed… that there is ‘something wrong with my ability to reflect’. There is an experience of emotion, but there is no my emotional state. The direct experience of ‘states’, is that of one thought. Seems trivial perhaps, but only from the… as a concession… perspective of the separate self, or, ego. In Truth, there just isn’t some thing which does or could overshadow the Light. For this, when not denied and refuted, there is… the recognition of the first Noble Truth… and there is shadow work, such as the emotional scale, there is a expression.

 

Then there is an unnecessary (and veiling) tertiary Self conceptualization… my decisions… of, “should I even base my decisions on emotions?” At this point so to speak, emotion has already been conceptualized, and so it goes entirely missed emotion is only now, feeling is now, and emotion is guidance, now… meaningfulness & passion are already present now… and the mind so to speak, via conceptualization, veils the Truth… and there is the experience of living life, without any guidance, and the seeking, and suffering, continues. The series of Self conceptualizations creates the experience of believing “one day you like something, other day you don’t”. An experience of confusion created from believing the the conjecture of “states”, via Self conceptualization and the ensuing projection of feeling, which is Self, which is emotion, which is the very guidance that is desired, and that guides desire, and that quite literally be’s that which is desired. ‘It’s’ all, again, so to speak, conceptualized away. 

 

The Self conceptualization is so manipulative, one is left in a sort of “pure” yet unrecognized projecting, such that anyone who is living on the daily in meaningfulness and passion, must be some kind of ‘robot’ - which has excluded emotions from the equation. 🤦‍♂️ 

On 5/31/2022 at 8:10 AM, Valley2Mountain said:

 

If I understood you correctly, emotional guidance is referred to the thoughts arising from thinking about the directions and not from the directions themselves?

It’s direct experience. Use the emotional scale. 

On 5/31/2022 at 8:10 AM, Valley2Mountain said:

This protocol consists of two parts? Firstly, I recognize the emotion that arise from each direction. Then I reflect on the thoughts that come out?

It’s just a tool, not a protocol. Emotion doesn’t arise from any direction. 

 

 

 “The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you’re inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy.” – Morpheus

[Faith]

 

 

 

[Valley2Mountain]

@Phil Wow, a lot of self conceptualization is going on here. So, in order to pass through that, one should connect more with emotions? For example by using the emotional scale and expression?

On 6/12/2022 at 3:52 PM, Phil said:

“States” is Self conceptualization

If states is self conceptualization, what makes the emotional states found on the emotional scale any different?

 

@Faith I understand that for some the process is as direct as she described, for example one likes to act (and he is good at it) so he becomes an actor. I love trekking and I'm good at it, does that mean I'd enjoy doing full time or being a tour guide as a career? The answer is no. I don't feel it can fulfill me in the long run, because in my opinion it lacks other factors which are important to me as well, such as - a varied career, being impactful (I'd like to influence, to change stuff in the world while a hiker is just an observer {not saying this as a good or a bad thing}).

 

So, to summarize,  I think it's more nuanced than what she describes

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Valley2Mountain

[Phil]

19 minutes ago, Valley2Mountain said:

If states is self conceptualization, why makes the different emotional states found on the emotional scale different?

What are “emotional states”? 

Where are these found on the scale, and are you in them? 

[Valley2Mountain]

If I got you right, emotions are not concepts but once you declare them as "your" emotions as having them in your possession, then it becomes self conceptualization?@Phil  

[Phil]

Just now, Valley2Mountain said:

If I got you right, emotions are not concepts but once you declare them as "your" emotions as having them in your possession, then it becomes self conceptualization?@Phil  

What’s meant by “it”?

[Valley2Mountain]

My emotional state?

[Phil]

@Valley2Mountain

I think you get what I’m saying, yes. There just isn’t that becoming part. It already is via believing the thought. 

[Faith]

@Valley2Mountain Yeah, I understand what you're saying, but she could also mean innate skills, which make you good at something, gives you confidence. Often (not always) you may like it, because your good at it. 

 

I'm an analytical thinker. It's a natural quality that I have. It makes me good at quality assurance. I'm currently a nurse reviewing other medical professional documents and visit notes before final approval. I also ICD 10 code which requires analysis to do well. 

 

So, right, it doesn't have to be some "passion" or hobby per se ...look at her, she's a judge. She's good at being a judge and that's what she must like to do, but it wasn't a hobby first.

 

[Valley2Mountain]

On 6/12/2022 at 3:52 PM, Phil said:

Meaningfulness & passion are already & are always readily available

@Phil After reading this again, I felt I needed to come back to this sentence. Can you please elaborate on this point? I mean, do you imply that, a KFC cashier can feel it just as strong as a doctor in a hospital? It's hard to imagine that experiencing these emotions doesn't depend on what you do externally.

 

On 6/12/2022 at 3:52 PM, Phil said:

the feeling of meaningful, not meaning, and the emotion passion

By the way, are you using the words "feeling" and "emotion" interchangeably or do they have different meanings?

 

Finally, if you put aside the specific case I described in the first message which followed by your advice, what's the main principal (the healthy way) in which you should go about the journey of seeking feeling passionate and meaningful.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Valley2Mountain said:

After reading this again, I felt I needed to come back to this sentence. Can you please elaborate on this point? I mean, do you imply that, a KFC cashier can feel it just as strong as a doctor in a hospital?

Yes indeed. A ten year old paperboy could be filled with meaningfulness & passion and a doctor could be filled with powerlessness & guilt. 

1 hour ago, Valley2Mountain said:

It's hard to imagine that experiencing these emotions doesn't depend on what you do externally.

By the way, are you using the words "feeling" and "emotion" interchangeably or do they have different meanings?

(the feeling of meaningful, not meaning, and the emotion passion)

It’s hard to keep imagining that it does. It’s effortless to feel emotions and receive the guidance therein. 

1 hour ago, Valley2Mountain said:

Finally, if you put aside the specific case I described in the first message which followed by your advice, what's the main principal (the healthy way) in which you should go about the journey of seeking feeling passionate and meaningful.

To let go of the belief it’s related to what you should do, and focus on what you desire to. To seek feeling & emotion requires overlooking feeling & emotion. It can be helpful as in clarifying, to attempt to point to the source of feeling. 

[Valley2Mountain]

@Phil

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

Yes indeed. A ten year old paperboy could be filled with meaningfulness & passion and a doctor could be filled with powerlessness & guilt. 

So, if people can be filled with passion and meaningfulness being even the most basic factory worker (just an example), what would be any reason for them to pursue careers that require years of effort only to begin working in? I mean, don't tell me that from your point of view it's only because of financial reasons.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Valley2Mountain said:

@Phil

So, if people can be filled with passion and meaningfulness being even the most basic factory worker (just an example),

Is a job, career, line of work, etc… identity?

Is feeling in a future? 

Is feeling amazing contingent, conditional?

1 hour ago, Valley2Mountain said:

what would be any reason for them to pursue careers that require years of effort only to begin working in?

Interest, preference, inspiration, enjoying it, inflation of ego, sincere desire for servitude, selfishness, selflessness, to move out of parents house, to buy a house, to start a family, to support a family, to work with friends, to travel, etc. I bet we could come up with many reasons. 

[Valley2Mountain]

@Phil  First of all, I apologize if I drove you crazy from the already long thread😅. We can finish it here. I just like to understand things thoroughly.

However, if you'd like to help me settle my unsettled mind, then here is my current confusion:

If, as you say, passion and meaningfulness are independent of external circumstances, then there shouldn't be any preference between career paths, because the content of the career doesn't matter. Preference, by definition, means that one thing provides you with something that another thing can't provide you with. But, what else can a job provide you with, other than passion and meaning? (again, putting aside for a second financial reasons or job conditions. Let's say we compare two jobs equal in their conditions). Unless, we use the terms "passion" and "meaningfulness" in a different manner.

For me (In the context of vocations), passion is a feeling of intense interest, attraction, enjoyment towards / from something. If you are passionate about something, then you'd like to invest your time and energy into doing that. Meaningfulness, is the feeling you get when you sense that what you do matters. That It brings a certain value to the world. So already, by those definitions, these emotions are contingent upon what you do externally in the world. From the reasons you listed above, I think you can put Interest, preference and enjoying it under the umbrella of passion. sincere desire for servitude, selfishness, selflessness, inspiration can be put under meaningfulness while the rest falls mostly under financial reasons.

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Valley2Mountain

[Phil]

20 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

@Phil  First of all, I apologize if I drove you crazy from the already long thread😅. We can finish it here. I just like to understand things thoroughly.

No worries. I was already crazy. 

20 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

However, if you'd like to help me settle my unsettled mind, then here is my current confusion:

If, as you say, passion and meaningfulness are independent of external circumstances,

Ah - but I didn’t say that. 

You’re now saying that - but saying that’s what I say. 

That’s not what I’m saying. 

I’m saying passion and meaningfulness are prior to - external circumstances. 

But if you see it otherwise, no worries, no argument or dispute here - that’s your business, not mine. 

20 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

then there shouldn't be any preference

There IS preference. 

The notion that there shouldn’t be - is a preference. 

But then of course you gotta wonder… kinda - check - is it? 

20 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

 

between career paths, because the content of the career doesn't matter.

If inspected… the… ‘content of the career’… is that actually found?

Or does direct experience reveal the truth - that what is found, is the content of, thoughts?

Trying to physically speaking, point to ‘content of career’ might be clarifying. 

20 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

Preference, by definition, means that one thing provides you with something that another thing can't provide you with.

Just to be forthright and honest… I don’t actually care what you think. I love ya unconditionally. This isn’t a debate here, there’s no tango happenin. Think whatever you like. Believe and utilize definitions however you like. Whatever feels good to you… would be my ‘two cents’. If ‘going by definitions’ is your preference, ok. I don’t care at all what any definitions mean, wether that meaning is to a me or a you… I honestly don’t care. 

20 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

 

But, what else can a job provide you with, other than passion and meaning? (again, putting aside for a second financial reasons or job conditions. Let's say we compare two jobs equal in their conditions). Unless, we use the terms "passion" and "meaningfulness" in a different manner.

For me (In the context of vocations), passion is a feeling of intense interest, attraction, enjoyment towards / from something.

Scientifically & most literally speaking, how does a job provide you with passion and meaning?

How does passion & meaning actually transfer from a job - to you?

20 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

If you are passionate about something, then you'd like to invest your time and energy into doing that. Meaningfulness, is the feeling you get when you sense that what you do matters. That It brings a certain value to the world.

Is “the world” experiencing - value? 

Or is there maybe the belief, that a world experiences value? 

Maybe there is a direct experience of thoughts, of value…? 

20 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

 

So already, by those definitions, these emotions are contingent upon what you do externally in the world.

Again I do love ya and wish you the best. I hope you and your definitions and all things in your life work out just like you want it to. 

20 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

From the reasons you listed above, I think you can put Interest, preference and enjoying it under the umbrella of passion. sincere desire for servitude, selfishness, selflessness, inspiration can be put under meaningfulness while the rest falls mostly under financial reasons.

I get a strong sense you really love the financial reasons and are very excited about that aspect of what’s to come. 

[Valley2Mountain]

Thank you for the answer.

21 minutes ago, Phil said:

I get a strong sense you really love the financial reasons and are very excited about that aspect of what’s to come. 

Not sure how you came to this conclusion?🧐. If anything, this is one of my last priorities. That's what the title is all about. If I was seeking to be financially secure, I'd just enter the high tech sector and never look back. Definitely in that case, I wouldn't be spending time on this forum. In a sense, life would be much easier without all this questioning. But I do want to question things, hence I entered this forum. The definitions I use? I honestly don't give a **** about them. They are just the current tools I have in my disposal to navigate life. Are they false? Perhaps. I would like to question that as well. The definitions might be wrong but they are clear and concise, as opposed to the alternative that seems amorphous and elusive. I don't know whether it's because of the nature of it, language barriers or the limitation of the forum compared to speaking. Nevertheless, I have an honest desire to understand what you are offering. If it seems as if I'm arguing with you for the sake of arguing then it's not the case. I am simply trying to understand❤️.

[Phil]

5 hours ago, Valley2Mountain said:

Thank you for the answer.

Not sure how you came to this conclusion?🧐. If anything, this is one of my last priorities. That's what the title is all about. If I was seeking to be financially secure, I'd just enter the high tech sector and never look back. Definitely in that case, I wouldn't be spending time on this forum. In a sense, life would be much easier without all this questioning. But I do want to question things, hence I entered this forum. The definitions I use? I honestly don't give a **** about them. They are just the current tools I have in my disposal to navigate life. Are they false? Perhaps. I would like to question that as well. The definitions might be wrong but they are clear and concise, as opposed to the alternative that seems amorphous and elusive. I don't know whether it's because of the nature of it, language barriers or the limitation of the forum compared to speaking. Nevertheless, I have an honest desire to understand what you are offering. If it seems as if I'm arguing with you for the sake of arguing then it's not the case. I am simply trying to understand❤️.

What priorities are higher?

I’d start general and then get as specific as you can. 

 

Have you made a dreamboard? 

Might be an ideal way to visually see what you want… dots connect.