Autism & Nonduality?

[Phil]

@Enlightened Cat

Opposite as in there is no deficit / no maladaptive situation. 

[Enlightened Cat]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

no deficit / no maladaptive situation. 

How is that? Meaning, nothing needs to be adjusted?

[Phil]

@Enlightened Cat

Right. 

[Enlightened Cat]

38 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Enlightened Cat

Right. 

Why is that? Is it the idea that there is a thing which needs adjusting which is misunderstanding? Kind of like a finger that is pointing blame or something.

For example, someone has an emotional outburst of some sort. Then it is thought that something needs adjusting, and then maybe the environment is adjusted by removing the thing that triggered it. This prevents the outburst from being perceived (which might be what you mean by suppression), and so that vilifies the outburst as something which needs adjusting, but it is actually a symptom of whatever initially caused it to be acted out. So maybe to say it more accurately, the outburst is not maladaptive at all, but an intelligent response to something perceived as a threat. Like how a cat hissing can be seen as aggressive or unwanted behavior, but if you make the goal "I want my cat to stop hissing", then you are removing a natural and vital defense mechanism and so it does not fix the initial cause at all (suppression). The proper question or inquiry is why does it hiss or what causes that hissing.

[Enlightened Cat]

7 hours ago, Phil said:

@Enlightened Cat

Right. 

Maybe I understand this more now.

 

Is it perhaps the belief that the opposite isn't true which ironically perpetuates the maladaptivity? Because it creates an imperative that something is broken or needs fixing, which is the fundamental narrative which drives the feelings of separation and division in the first place? 

[Phil]

@Enlightened Cat

Definitely warmer 🙂.

What are feelings of separation & division?

[Enlightened Cat]

5 hours ago, Phil said:

What are feelings of separation & division?

That's a good question. 

The feelings "play a part" in it, but aren't separation and division itself. The feelings are more like an intelligent reaction to serve the separation and division, and that separation and division is an imagination or thought which divides experience or makes a statement about experience. This creates a desire to "protect" myself from that division or thought. And that desire creates a certain feeling which serves it. Whether it is fear, jealousy, anger, etc.

For example, if I fear something coming up in the future, the thought creates an idea of me in the future, and that thought feels bad because there can't be two of "me", one in the future and one in the present. This is the division created by thought or imagination. The fear is equivalent to the desire to avoid the future scenario, but what is not seen that there is no future scenario outside of the thought of one. The fear serves to protect the current me from the imaginary future me. And so you could say that this is a "feeling of separation."

In the case of autism, if there is an idea like "I am maladaptive" or "I cause maladaptivity" or "I have to fix things that are maladaptive" or even "I am in a world/situation which is maladaptive", that causes you to imagine the world as a thing that lacks, relative to a future scenario where it is ideal and doesn't lack. It makes you look at the world as a set of "problems that need to be fixed." Which seems to fundamentally trickle down to this narrative of separation which often goes like "In the future I will finally be perfect and whole." Not to mention, it causes you to overlook the intelligence of what is occurring in front of you and it causes suppression, because you've put everything in a box of "maladaptive problems" without appreciating the dynamics of why they exist in the first place and what they serve to accomplish, aside from just being problematic for you. Similar to how someone who feels anxiety drinks alcohol in order to alleviate the "problem" of anxiety. It overlooks the aspect of it which is not maladaptive or a problem at all, but is simply there to serve you.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Enlightened Cat said:

The feelings "play a part" in it, but aren't separation and division itself. The feelings are more like an intelligent reaction to serve the separation and division, and that separation and division is an imagination or thought which divides experience or makes a statement about experience. This creates a desire to "protect" myself from that division or thought. And that desire creates a certain feeling which serves it. Whether it is fear, jealousy, anger, etc.

For example, if I fear something coming up in the future, the thought creates an idea of me in the future, and that thought feels bad because there can't be two of "me", one in the future and one in the present. This is the division created by thought or imagination. The fear is equivalent to the desire to avoid the future scenario, but what is not seen that there is no future scenario outside of the thought of one. The fear serves to protect the current me from the imaginary future me. And so you could say that this is a "feeling of separation."

Thought about a separate self… and emotions… ?

 

2 hours ago, Enlightened Cat said:

In the case of autism, if there is an idea like "I am maladaptive" or "I cause maladaptivity" or "I have to fix things that are maladaptive" or even "I am in a world/situation which is maladaptive", that causes you to imagine the world as a thing that lacks, relative to a future scenario where it is ideal and doesn't lack. It makes you look at the world as a set of "problems that need to be fixed." Which seems to fundamentally trickle down to this narrative of separation which often goes like "In the future I will finally be perfect and whole." Not to mention, it causes you to overlook the intelligence of what is occurring in front of you and it causes suppression, because you've put everything in a box of "maladaptive problems" without appreciating the dynamics of why they exist in the first place and what they serve to accomplish, aside from just being problematic for you. Similar to how someone who feels anxiety drinks alcohol in order to alleviate the "problem" of anxiety. It overlooks the aspect of it which is not maladaptive or a problem at all, but is simply there to serve you.

Far less or no thoughts about a separate self…?

[Enlightened Cat]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

Thought about a separate self… and emotions… ?

Yes.

Imagining yourself as separate creates a desire about that separate self, and that desire is the emotion or feeling felt about that separate self.

 

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

Far less or no thoughts about a separate self…?

No thoughts would be better.

I think the "opposite" is really just no thoughts about a self at all.

Edited March 24 by Enlightened Cat

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Enlightened Cat said:

Yes.

Imagining yourself as separate creates a desire about that separate self, and that desire is the emotion or feeling felt about that separate self.

Can you imagine yourself?

 

1 hour ago, Enlightened Cat said:

 

No thoughts would be better.

I think the "opposite" is really just no thoughts about a self at all.

Like a thinker? 

[Enlightened Cat]

32 minutes ago, Phil said:

Can you imagine yourself?

No, not truly. Because you are imagining. There can't be you imagining you.

 

32 minutes ago, Phil said:

Like a thinker? 

Yes. Any subject-object relation.

Edited March 24 by Enlightened Cat