@Forza21 It seems to me you're more or less trying to guesstimate the winds of consensus. When it comes to this topic of spirituality, I've generally become disillusioned with it, so I'm not attached to Leo if I don't like him (metaphysically). But I operate from a place where I do not take terms like "enlightenment" as a given, and I have no reason to believe all of us are taking about the same thing at all. All the evidence instead shows me everyone is talking about different things