Are you experiencing?

[James123]

35 minutes ago, fopylo said:

1 hour ago, James123 said:

 

Could you experience no thoughts?

Of course. I was just saying to point out to something therefore saying the thought. Try to find your thoughts, feelings, emotions etc. where are they?  However, don’t forget experiencing no thoughts is a thought itself. What you refer is empty mind, nothing. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by James123

[Myself]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

What is experience? Where is it? Isnt it a just a word that you have learned?

In this context I'm referring to the totality of what you are conscious of right now.  Personally, my experience isn't located anywhere in space as space is a part of my experience. Essentially I'm asking if you are conscious of anything and if so what are you conscious of.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Myself

[James123]

Just now, Myself said:

In this context I'm referring to the totality of what you are conscious of right now.  Your experience isn't located in space as space is a part of your experience. Essentially I'm asking if you are conscious of anything and if so what are you conscious of.

Sure. I got it. So where is this you? Space? These words or fingers that writes these sentences?

[Myself]

Just now, James123 said:

Sure. I got it. So where is this you? Space? These words or fingers that writes these sentences?

My body is in space. I don't know what I am so I don't know where I am. 

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, Myself said:

Are you experiencing right now? And if so could you please describe what you are experiencing right now?

Yes .

I'm experiencing existence right now via five senses .I have five sensory inputs and nothing else. 

What else ?

[James123]

1 minute ago, Myself said:

My body is in space. I don't know what I am so I don't know where I am. 

Whatever you believe thats what you are in illusion and your reality as experience. If you do not attach with thoughts for even a second, what will be your experience in that moment?

[Myself]

20 minutes ago, DMT Elf said:

@Myself Is this WokeBloke?

I’m experiencing suspicion that WokeBloke has found the actuality of being forum.

Aren't we all? Or maybe just me lol.

[Blessed2]

5 hours ago, Myself said:

Are you experiencing right now?

 

There is sounds and colours and shapes etc. Though I don't know if there is anyone experiencing it per se, maybe it's just appearing.

 

5 hours ago, Myself said:

And if so could you please describe what you are experiencing right now?

 

Lying on a couch, phone in both hands, writing, sound of girlfriend in shower, toes wiggling.

 

 

[fopylo]

6 hours ago, James123 said:

Of course. I was just saying to point out to something therefore saying the thought. Try to find your thoughts, feelings, emotions etc. where are they?  However, don’t forget experiencing no thoughts is a thought itself. What you refer is empty mind, nothing

@James123

Basically you're saying that everything is thoughts and there's no distinction between a thought and no-thought?

If so, no offence but it's kinda lame...

It's just another way of being funny with it

[James123]

7 hours ago, fopylo said:

asically you're saying that everything is thoughts and there's no distinction between a thought and no-thought?

It is actually, there is no such a thing as a thought or no thought. 

7 hours ago, fopylo said:

f so, no offence but it's kinda lame...

It's just another way of being funny with it

I know, i know 😂😂😂 therefore there is no such a thing as free will. Because there is no you or i in the first place. Now is before birth. Rest is illusion, not even. Even word of illusion is imply something, but there is no such as implication 😂😂😂😂

[Someone here]

6 hours ago, James123 said:

therefore there is no such a thing as free will. Because there is no you or i in the first place

I stopped believing in Free Will about 4 years ago. This realization pushed me into a minor bout with depression for a few weeks. Over these few weeks, I tried to prove to myself that I still had free will, and, though my attempts were futile, the process allowed me to think through what Determinism really meant. I believe in Determinism, because I have not observed nor have heard of clear evidence of true randomness, so for the time being I believe that all events are completely causally determined.

[James123]

55 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I stopped believing in Free Will about 4 years ago. This realization pushed me into a minor bout with depression for a few weeks. Over these few weeks, I tried to prove to myself that I still had free will, and, though my attempts were futile, the process allowed me to think through what Determinism really meant. I believe in Determinism, because I have not observed nor have heard of clear evidence of true randomness, so for the time being I believe that all events are completely causally determined.

The main reason of depression is there is a you, and that you has no free will. You or I is an illusion in first place. Thoughts are not YOU. YOU ARE YOU!!!

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, James123 said:

The main reason of depression is there is a you, and that you has no free will. You or I is an illusion in first place. Thoughts are not YOU. YOU ARE YOU!!!

I think free will is an illusion only to God, who brought us into this world with the ability to ‘think’ we have personal responsibility for our actions. We make choices every day because we are taught to think, and we’ve learned to do so. We know something because we are taught something. Our knowledge is therefore the effect of the teaching that caused us to have it. We learn, for example, that putting our hand in fire (cause) will have the effect of burning it and that gives us a sense of responsibility for our actions; but accidentally getting caught in a fire will get us burned also teaches us that we are not always responsible for getting burned. You can’t have a free-will if something happens to you outside of your will, you can only respond to it in a cause and effect way according to your ability, availability and the environment you are in, which on the most part is beyond your control. For example, we know that if we commit a crime we can expect to get punished for it because society deems us responsible for our actions and choices, but we also know that many get convicted and punished for a crime they didn’t commit (or didn’t mean to commit). What if committing that crime was the effect of us being at that perfect place, at that perfect time and opportunity, all beyond our control, which were themselves effects of a long list of cause and effects that started at when and where we were born, what parents we had and the racial, religious, social, economical situations, etc. we lived through up to that time?

[James123]

17 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I think free will is an illusion only to God, who brought us into this world with the ability to ‘think’ we have personal responsibility for our actions. We make choices every day because we are taught to think, and we’ve learned to do so. We know something because we are taught something. Our knowledge is therefore the effect of the teaching that caused us to have it. We learn, for example, that putting our hand in fire (cause) will have the effect of burning it and that gives us a sense of responsibility for our actions; but accidentally getting caught in a fire will get us burned also teaches us that we are not always responsible for getting burned. You can’t have a free-will if something happens to you outside of your will, you can only respond to it in a cause and effect way according to your ability, availability and the environment you are in, which on the most part is beyond your control. For example, we know that if we commit a crime we can expect to get punished for it because society deems us responsible for our actions and choices, but we also know that many get convicted and punished for a crime they didn’t commit (or didn’t mean to commit). What if committing that crime was the effect of us being at that perfect place, at that perfect time and opportunity, all beyond our control, which were themselves effects of a long list of cause and effects that started at when and where we were born, what parents we had and the racial, religious, social, economical situations, etc. we lived through up to that time?

Ok. Let's consider the thoughts are correct. How come you can be in control of body which is included by trillion cells, which all work differently at the same time?

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, James123 said:

Ok. Let's consider the thoughts are correct. How come you can be in control of body which is included by trillion cells, which all work differently at the same time?

I'm not saying we have free will . I know that for the most part we are not in control of our physical or mental processes.  It's easy to prove if you try to guess what will be your next thought after 10 seconds from now . So im agreeing with you that there is no free will .

However my point was that even though we have not free will ..we are still held accountable for our actions  . 

Today, with ever increasing understanding of neurons, circuits and cognition, the  concept of free will has become outdated and any metaphysical account of free will is rightfully rejected. The consequence is not, however, that we become mindless automata responding predictably to external stimuli. We don't have  free will but we MUST act as if we Have free will. 

Do you understand  my point ?

[Myself]

12 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I'm not saying we have free will . I know that for the most part we are not in control of our physical or mental processes.  It's easy to prove if you try to guess what will be your next thought after 10 seconds from now . So im agreeing with you that there is no free will .

However my point was that even though we have not free will ..we are still held accountable for our actions  . 

Today, with ever increasing understanding of neurons, circuits and cognition, the  concept of free will has become outdated and any metaphysical account of free will is rightfully rejected. The consequence is not, however, that we become mindless automata responding predictably to external stimuli. We don't have  free will but we MUST act as if we Have free will. 

Do you understand  my point ?

Can you define free will?

Aren't you free to do whatever you are capable of?

We each have our own will. 

Our only problem is our compulsiveness and inabilities.

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, Myself said:

Can you define free will?

The ability to be the chooser or doer for our thoughts,actions, emotions etc 

13 minutes ago, Myself said:

Aren't you free to do whatever you are capable of?

No. For instance try this..if I told do NOT think of a pink elephant..you will automatically be thinking about pink elephants.

14 minutes ago, Myself said:

We each have our own will. 

What do you mean by "we " and by "will "?

14 minutes ago, Myself said:

Our only problem is our compulsiveness and inabilities

If you haven't noticed yet ..everything you do is compulsive. Your thoughts. Your actions.your reactions. All of it .

[Myself]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

The ability to be the chooser or doer for our thoughts,actions, emotions etc 

No. For instance try this..if I told do NOT think of a pink elephant..you will automatically be thinking about pink elephants.

What do you mean by "we " and by "will "?

If you haven't noticed yet ..everything you do is compulsive. Your thoughts. Your actions.your reactions. All of it .

 

You have abilities. For example, you can type.

Now you have two options to choose from right now. You can either type or not type. Your will is your ability to choose what to do. So you are exercising your will right now.

In reality you have many options to choose from because you can do more than just type.

Not everything I do is compulsive because some of my actions I choose to preform.

 

 

 

[James123]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

. We don't have  free will but we MUST act as if we Have free will. 

Yes I got what you mean. But this is cause of suffering. 

[Someone here]

26 minutes ago, Myself said:

 

You have abilities. For example, you can type.

Now you have two options to choose from right now. You can either type or not type. Your will is your ability to choose what to do. So you are exercising your will right now.

In reality you have many options to choose from because you can do more than just type.

Not everything I do is compulsive because some of my actions I choose to preform.

 

 

 

Watch your own thoughts right now. Become aware of the experience of what it's like to think. Watch how they come and go, as if arising out of a void.

Now, ask yourself honestly, are you choosing your thoughts? Are you in control of what thoughts arise within your mind, and when? It seems like the basic premise of the free will argument is that there is a wilfil agent behind what we do, that controls behaviour like a driver drives a car. But is this really the case?

If you watch closely how thought happens, you will become aware that there is no way that you could consciously choose your own thoughts, because this would necessarily mean that you knew what you were going to think before you thought it. Therefore we must conclude that thoughts emerge from a source which we don't have conscious control over; unconscious processes that we can't manipulate or predict.