How I feel-the suppressed expressed

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

What is this I that can be more relaxed ?😎

Exactly! “Death” 🕶 

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

… your self-definition….your beliefs or feelings or ideas about self are the problem…. there is a difference…

This ignorance sounds so familiar. No separate selves, no teachers, no students, no problem. 🤍

 

Peace!

[Phil]

By ‘ignorance’ I of course don’t mean there is a separate self which is ignorant.

I mean ignore-ance, ignoring of the divisive (creating disunity or dissension; rhetoric) aspect / words.

 

What’s being said is there aren’t separate selves, there is only infinite self. 

 

…But what’s being said… about what’s being said - is “You’re saying there’s no self!”.

 

No, that isn’t what’s being said, not at all.

 

(see videos, website, comments)

 

That’s just what’s being said - about what’s being said. 

 

23 hours ago, Someone here said:

..how is it that all of reality is inherently good and loving… But I'm not sure if you ever…

And this is the significance… the relevance is where divisiveness isn’t, or, can not go if you will.

Put another way, the mind can not be where it has not yet been.

 

Take the I out of living. 

‘Oh!’

 

[Someone here]

@Phil is peace ,serenity,joy ,love ,happiness etc(you know all the good shit that we want ) ,is it intrinsic in us or is it achieved through an external things?

[Phil]

@Someone here

Intrinsic. 

[Someone here]

@Phil so does that mean that a beggar's chance of finding happiness is equivalent to a billionaire's chance? 

[Phil]

@Someone here

More intrinsic. 🙂

 

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

More intrinsic. 🙂

 

So ,It wouldn't matter  to you if tommorrow you Lose everything you own and live on the streets ..?.or if you win that 1,000,000 $ lottery?  Its equal in your eyes ? You can be perfectly and equally happy in both scenarios? 

[Phil]

@Someone here

There are thoughts of happiness, and there is the actuality of happiness.

Happiness is precisely the absence of people and external things. 

It’s only obscured by itself as the activity of conceptualizing itself. 

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

There are thoughts of happiness, and there is the actuality of happiness.

Happiness is precisely the absence of people and external things. 

It’s only obscured by itself as the activity of conceptualizing itself. 

What do you mean by "happiness is the absence of people and external things "?

To my mind..There are no "one sentence" definitions of true happiness. You've essentially presented a false dilemma to  this question. It would be the equivalent of asking, "What is the best way to purchase a new Lamborghini for a dollar?"

Happiness is entirely subjective. There are no fixed rules on this. What may be happiness for one person (My dad wants to spend all his free time hunting) may well be misery for another (I hate hunting).

Also..you didn't answer my question in the previous post nor did you even consider it.  I don't think its a difficult question to avoid .

[Phil]

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

What do you mean by "happiness is the absence of people and external things "?

Infinite / absence of beliefs. 

 

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

To my mind..

That’s an assumption which can be inspected.

 

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

There are no "one sentence" definitions of true happiness.

This conflicts…

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

Happiness is entirely subjective.

…with this.

Inspect that to satisfactory resolve. Question scientifically, most literally. Sort out all bias, assumption, conditioning & conjecture to find out for sure, absolutely. 

 

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

You've essentially presented a false dilemma to  this question. It would be the equivalent of asking, "What is the best way to purchase a new Lamborghini for a dollar?"

This is in conflict…

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

There are no fixed rules on this.

… with this. 

 

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

so does that mean that a beggar's chance of finding happiness is equivalent to a billionaire's chance?

They’re the appearance of happiness. It’s a matter of inspection, not chance. The one which inspects will find, the one which debates will debate.

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

So ,It wouldn't matter  to you if tommorrow you Lose everything you own and live on the streets ..?.or if you win that 1,000,000 $ lottery?  Its equal in your eyes ? You can be perfectly and equally happy in both scenarios? 

Separate selves are the activity of thought, meditation is the allowing of thought to come to rest. 

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

 

What may be happiness for one person (My dad wants to spend all his free time hunting) may well be misery for another (I hate hunting).

Hunting or not hunting are just preferences. Hate is an emotion. 

8 hours ago, Someone here said:

Also..you didn't answer my question in the previous post nor did you even consider it.  I don't think its a difficult question to avoid .

It’s like you’re asking about how unicorns become happy or where they get their happiness from and I’m telling you the truth that there aren’t unicorns, and you’re saying I’m not answering, or considering, or am avoiding your questions. 

 

[Someone here]

19 minutes ago, Phil said:

Infinite / absence of beliefs.

So "other people " are a belief ? 

20 minutes ago, Phil said:

That’s an assumption which can be inspected.

I think It's time to not overly "inspect " every little word that comes out of one's mouth . We can just use  these colloquial expressions without obsessing over them being 100% accurate. Because we can't do it anyway.  To communicate we have to use thoughts, concepts, and assumptions.  Whether you like it or not .

23 minutes ago, Phil said:

Inspect that to satisfactory resolve. Question scientifically, most literally. Sort out all bias, assumption, conditioning & conjecture to find out for sure, absolutely. 

I did . And I found out that my happiness is different than others . Just the other day I told a friend of mine that watching porn makes me happy . He cringed from hearing that and told me that I'm a weirdo.  Who's right ? Of course we both are right simultaneously. 

I have an active mind. I enjoy “sampling” various aspects of life and juicing out various experiences to the fullest, as well as wishing to be an active participant in what this planet and this existence have to offer. I don’t have too many opportunities to do that (i.e. I cannot go into space and I am not a billionaire who can arrange helicopter races over Tierra del Fuego and hire a composer to write a symphony about it), but what I can do, I will certainly try, learn, explore, and find out.

26 minutes ago, Phil said:

They’re the appearance of happiness. It’s a matter of inspection, not chance. The one which inspects will find, the one which debates will debate

I hope I'm not coming off as someone who debates for the sake of debating .and that I'm inspecting effectively.  But what you have to understand about me is that I don't like settling for half baked answers or worldviews. That's why I fundamentally disagree with this whole notion of there not being a self inside the organism(just as an example, we've beaten this horse to death and I don't wish to reopen this issue once again 😅).

29 minutes ago, Phil said:

Separate selves are the activity of thought, meditation is the allowing of thought to come to rest.

Has nothing to do with my question that you've quoted.  I asked you a very specific question about two choices being equal to you .what does separate self and meditation got to do with this ?

31 minutes ago, Phil said:

It’s like you’re asking about how unicorns become happy or where they get their happiness from and I’m telling you the truth that there aren’t unicorns, and you’re saying I’m not answering, or considering, or am avoiding your questions

Yes but are you really gonna answer every question we have about life by saying there aren't separate self ? I mean I get..OK.. fine..there is no CEO that lives inside my skull that's doing stuff and everything just arise without a separate controller...but you can't go on answering every question whether its related to that or not with the same answer about there not being separte selves .

It's like asking you..what did you have for breakfast this morning?  And you're like " there's no separate self who had Anything "

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

So "other people " are a belief ? 

Well, “other people are a belief”  could be a pinch solipsistic. 

‘People’ is a thought - believed or not believed is up to awareness. Perception is perception, sensation is sensation. 

Awareness is aware of thoughts, perception & sensation (awareness). 

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I think It's time to not overly "inspect " every little word that comes out of one's mouth . We can just use  these colloquial expressions without obsessing over them being 100% accurate. Because we can't do it anyway.  To communicate we have to use thoughts, concepts, and assumptions.  Whether you like it or not .

Lol of course. Say whatever you like, inspect or don’t inspect whatever you like. There’s nothing wrong with pointing out there is a my mind is an assumption & suggesting inspection, especially given that you’re asking about the true nature, or, happiness.

Not sure where ‘wether you like it or not’ is coming from. I’m very much loving it. More than you could ever imagine. 

Also it seems what initially is thought to be pedantic or semantical ends up being the very inspection of subtle nuances which unveil the true nature. 

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I did . And I found out that my happiness is different than others .Just the other day I told a friend of mine that watching porn makes me happy . He cringed from hearing that and told me that I'm a weirdo.  Who's right ? Of course we both are right simultaneously. 

Happiness is uncaused. 

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I hope I'm not coming off as someone who debates for the sake of debating .and that I'm inspecting effectively.  But what you have to understand about me is that I don't like settling for half baked answers or worldviews. That's why I fundamentally disagree with this whole notion of there not being a self inside the organism(just as an example, we've beaten this horse to death and I don't wish to reopen this issue once again 😅).

I hear ya. I didn’t care for settling either. 

Organism’s a thought, like people. Happiness is vibrationally appearing as the thought people, and perception & sensation. It would almost seem like saying happiness is inside of would be accurate. Maybe as a concession or ‘half truth’. But that could also be misleading. 

Inspection wise, if interested, actually try to find the self which is thought to be inside an organism. 

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Has nothing to do with my question that you've quoted.  I asked you a very specific question about two choices being equal to you .what does separate self and meditation got to do with this ?

so does that mean that a beggar's chance of finding happiness is equivalent to a billionaire's chance?

It’s like you’re saying if unicorn A has no money and unicorn B has a lot of money do they both have the same chance at finding happiness. 

Chance has nothing to do with it. If A or B self inspects, A or B realizes there just aren’t unicorns / people. 

You can expect a true answer to a false question, but you can also just see or contemplate & inspect, as to how the falsity is actually baked into the question.

What meditation has to do with this is it’s the allowing of the question / thought activity to settle and disappear, leaving the very answer to what the question is about.  

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Yes but are you really gonna answer every question we have about life by saying there aren't separate self ?

I mean I get..OK.. fine..there is no CEO that lives inside my skull that's doing stuff and everything just arise without a separate controller...but you can't go on answering every question whether its related to that or not with the same answer about there not being separte selves .

Nothing could be more related to what you asking. You’re asking about happiness. You’re claiming there is your happiness and his happiness & that happiness comes from experience or is a product of a mind etc. I’m clarifying, and more importantly, I’m suggesting inspection, finding out. Definitely don’t take anyone’s word for it. 

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

It's like asking you..what did you have for breakfast this morning?  And you're like " there's no separate self who had Anything "

Lol. It’s nothing like that. You’re asking about the true nature. Feel free to ask that or any question anytime. I haven’t ate anything yet today. I usually don’t eat till later. 

 

Also, try to notice a lot of the convo going to there being no separate selves had to do with changing what’s being said (there aren’t separate selves, there is infinite self) to “there is no self”. Happiness is = clarity, so clarifications make sense, literally.  Sonoluminescence. 

 

[Someone here]

On 11/2/2022 at 5:34 PM, Phil said:

Well, “other people are a belief”  could be a pinch solipsistic. 

‘People’ is a thought - believed or not believed is up to awareness. Perception is perception, sensation is sensation. 

Awareness is aware of thoughts, perception & sensation (awareness

Let's clarify something..any label whatsoever that you smash upon reality is a thought.  So a tree is a thought. A car is a thought. Food is a thought.  The sun is a thought.  BUT ..what about the actual thing that these thoughts point to ? I told you this before ..some thoughts do correspond to the real world and some don't.  There is a big difference between a unicorn and the sun ..even though both are thoughts. 

On 11/2/2022 at 5:34 PM, Phil said:

Lol of course. Say whatever you like, inspect or don’t inspect whatever you like. There’s nothing wrong with pointing out there is a my mind is an assumption & suggesting inspection, especially given that you’re asking about the true nature, or, happiness.

Not sure where ‘wether you like it or not’ is coming from. I’m very much loving it. More than you could ever imagine. 

Also it seems what initially is thought to be pedantic or semantical ends up being the very inspection of subtle nuances which unveil the true nature. 

OK sounds good . The point of disagreement was that the expression "my mind " refers to something that has no actuality In direct experience.  But English speakers use that expression easily without questioning the metaphysical assumptions baked into it . You seem to be very critical about the use of language. Which I don't know if its a good thing or a bad thing.

On 11/2/2022 at 5:34 PM, Phil said:

Happiness is uncaused

Then why does eating food ,smoking a cigarette,  jerking off etc seem to cause happiness in me ?

I agree that happiness is our original state .like I said  if you observe a child.  He is happy and giggling all the time  . He is in pure happiness .but as we become adults we become overburdened with life's responsibilities and problems. Which obscure our true nature .

On 11/2/2022 at 5:34 PM, Phil said:

Organism’s a thought, like people. Happiness is vibrationally appearing as the thought people, and perception & sensation. It would almost seem like saying happiness is inside of would be accurate. Maybe as a concession or ‘half truth’. But that could also be misleading. 

Inspection wise, if interested, actually try to find the self which is thought to be inside an organism.

The same point about stuff being "thoughts .I already addressed this point above  .

On 11/2/2022 at 5:34 PM, Phil said:

Its like you’re saying if unicorn A has no money and unicorn B has a lot of money do they both have the same chance at finding happiness. 

Chance has nothing to do with it. If A or B self inspects, A or B realizes there just aren’t unicorns / people. 

You can expect a true answer to a false question, but you can also just see or contemplate & inspect, as to how the falsity is actually baked into the question.

What meditation has to do with this is it’s the allowing of the question / thought activity to settle and disappear, leaving the very answer to what the question is about

But we are NOT unicorns my brother..how can you equate a unicorn to a human being  ? A unicorn is an imaginary character in our minds. Whereas humans are real .

Ironically, it's because of a certain lack of imagination. Humans do not fit into the category of imagination.

Sometime after the notion of the square root of -1 being a number was first introduced, René Descartes coined the term “imaginary” for it because he considered it to be fictitious and useless. This was because he couldn't imagine a number that didn't fit on the number line. Thus, his lack of imagination lead to the number being called imaginary.

I suggest the same is happening with you.  You can't comprehend that a thought can be real or unreal based on how it correspond to external reality. 

On 11/2/2022 at 5:34 PM, Phil said:

Nothing could be more related to what you asking. You’re asking about happiness. You’re claiming there is your happiness and his happiness & that happiness comes from experience or is a product of a mind etc. I’m clarifying, and more importantly, I’m suggesting inspection, finding out. Definitely don’t take anyone’s word for it 

Yes I did inspect the source of happiness. It appears to me to come naturally the younger we are and the closer we are to childhood age. But as we grow up, for some reason ,we lose this unconditional happiness and begin to chase after external things like money and sex etc in hope to find happiness.  Not suggesting that it works .but that's what we are convinced that it works .

On 11/2/2022 at 5:34 PM, Phil said:

I haven’t ate anything yet today. I usually don’t eat till later. 

Same here .my appetite is shit in the early morning. I skip breakfast and that makes my lunch more tasty because I become very hungry 😅🙏

Edited November 4, 2022 by Someone here

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Let's clarify something..any label whatsoever that you smash upon reality is a thought.  So a tree is a thought. A car is a thought. Food is a thought.  The sun is a thought.  BUT ..what about the actual thing that these thoughts point to ? I told you this before ..some thoughts do correspond to the real world and some don't.  There is a big difference between a unicorn and the sun ..even though both are thoughts. 

“I just found out there's no such thing as the real world, just a lie you've got to rise above.”

Thing is a thought. The thought implies separation. 

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

OK sounds good . The point of disagreement was that the expression "my mind " refers to something that has no actuality In direct experience.  But English speakers use that expression easily without questioning the metaphysical assumptions baked into it . You seem to be very critical about the use of language. Which I don't know if its a good thing or a bad thing.

There’s no disagreement here, no debate, no one being critical. There’s also no good & bad. For the non-deflective, non-projective astute it is realized there is only goodness. This site is about self-realization, not English speakers or speaking. For self-realization there is questioning metaphysical assumptions, of which it seems your cup is overflowing. 

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Then why does eating food ,smoking a cigarette,  jerking off etc seem to cause happiness in me ?

So to speak, because you feel better when attention is taken from thoughts that are discordant & directed elsewhere. Then it is believed happiness comes from what attention was given to. The suggestion here is to inspect & thus inherently dispel the assumptions which are discordant in the first place and liberate therein.  

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

I agree that happiness is our original state .like I said  if you observe a child.  He is happy and giggling all the time  . He is in pure happiness .but as we become adults we become overburdened with life's responsibilities and problems. Which obscure our true nature .

States is an assumption. The relevance is there isn’t the ‘you’ of your state, an our state, or an original state even if & especially when that you is said to be consciousness. “States” is the burden, the ‘responsibility’, the ‘problem’, and has everything to do with the previous answer. A paradigm is seen clearly when no longer believed. When not believed you are or are in a state, it is clearly seen there aren’t any. The true nature is infinite and thus only obscures itself.  

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

The same point about stuff being "thoughts .I already addressed this point above  .

But we are NOT unicorns my brother..how can you equate a unicorn to a human being  ? A unicorn is an imaginary character in our minds. Whereas humans are real .

Humans are assumed to be real, as real is assumed to be dualistic or a duality. Inspect what a human is without conceptualizing or applying any assumptions and inevitably there is only happiness. 

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Ironically, it's because of a certain lack of imagination. Humans do not fit into the category of imagination.

Sometime after the notion of the square root of -1 being a number was first introduced, René Descartes coined the term “imaginary” for it because he considered it to be fictitious and useless. This was because he couldn't imagine a number that didn't fit on the number line. Thus, his lack of imagination lead to the number being called imaginary.

I suggest the same is happening with you.  You can't comprehend that a thought can be real or unreal based on how it correspond to external reality. 

Inspect & dispel vs assuming & projecting lack. 

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Yes I did inspect the source of happiness. It appears to me to come naturally the younger we are and the closer we are to childhood age. But as we grow up, for some reason ,we lose this unconditional happiness and begin to chase after external things like money and sex etc in hope to find happiness.  Not suggesting that it works .but that's what we are convinced that it works .

Same here .my appetite is shit in the early morning. I skip breakfast and that makes my lunch more tasty because I become very hungry 😅🙏

Aging is an assumption. You’ve never aged a day. Inspect more acutely. Let reaction go in seeing it. Start noticing you’ve never been or experienced anywhere or anytime, but the very same now - the ineffable magic of conscious creating. Notice it seems like time is passing and you are aging, because so to speak, when you wake up in the morning, when you believe you woke up in the morning, that ‘waking up’ is only based on the assumption you sleep, and that someone ‘wakes up’…. and just like that infinite immeasurable wakefulness believes it is a body or human, aging, and believes wakefulness, itself, is a duality. Contemplate, how awake is the wakefulness of empty space. 

[Someone here]

27 minutes ago, Phil said:

just found out there's no such thing as the real world, just a lie you've got to rise above.”

Thing is a thought. The thought implies separation

 

Of course not. There is a real world.  At this point I'm not really sure what are you talking about . I don't understand your dichotomy of thought VS perception and sensation.  But certainly not every  word Is a thought.  Nor does the world run by thought .

Evolution requires no thought. The movement of Earth's tectonic plates, that can create mountains, requires no thought. The sun, by it's emission of photons, allowed life to come into existence and flourish.

I'm sure that there are many more examples.

I do not concede that nothing could exist apart from thought, and even though that the cosmos appears as one gigantic thought of God.. The universe thus indicates intelligence and purposed design.  Which are real .

Get out of your house .breath the air. Gaze at the sun .Notice that they exist without any need for thought to arise (which only labels it but doesn't give it reality or unreality).

34 minutes ago, Phil said:

There’s no disagreement here, no debate, no one being critical. There’s also no good & bad. For the non-deflective, non-projective astute it is realized there is only goodness. This site is about self-realization, not English speakers or speaking. For self-realization there is questioning metaphysical assumptions, of which it seems your cup is overflowing

Metaphysics means, literally, the study of that which is “beyond physics”. It deals with questions that cannot be settled by looking at empirical facts or by doing scientific experiments. 

Each side’s position rests on a metaphysical (unprovable) assumption.

So you are not escaping this problem.  You also don't like to question the notion that the self might exist. And that it's just not what you think it is .

38 minutes ago, Phil said:

So to speak, because you feel better when attention is taken from thoughts that are discordant & directed elsewhere. Then it is believed happiness comes from what attention was given to. The suggestion here is to inspect & thus inherently dispel the assumptions which are discordant in the first place and liberate therein.

Good explanation. But notice that attention is directed towards something which feels good . So the good feeling lies in the activity itself (the examples I mentioned).

On a tangent point : why do you always say "so to speak "? I'm right in that you want to be 100% perfect In articulating every word you write 😅

39 minutes ago, Phil said:

States is an assumption. The relevance is there isn’t the ‘you’ of your state, even if & especially when that you is said to be consciousness. “States” is the burden, the ‘responsibility’, the ‘problem’, and has everything to do with the previous answer. A paradigm is seen clearly when no longer believed. When not believed you are or are in a state, it is clearly seen there aren’t any. The true nature is infinite and thus only obscures itself

Depends on how you define consciousness. If you believe consciousness is only present in the HomoSapiens species, the answer is 1. If you believe only creatures are conscious, then add one state for each genus. Maybe you believe consciousness is simply another word for “life.” if so, the number of states is in the billions.

43 minutes ago, Phil said:

Humans are assumed to be real, as real is assumed to be dualistic or a duality. Inspect what a human is without conceptualizing. 

How can I inspect without using any concepts whatsoever?   Again a human is a word. A label . But what the actual thing thats being referred to with the label ? I mean why the hell does labels and thoughts exist in the first place ?

46 minutes ago, Phil said:

Aging is an assumption. You’ve never aged a day. Inspect more acutely. Let reaction go in seeing it. Start noticing you’ve never been or experienced anywhere or anytime, but the very same now - the ineffable magic of conscious creating. Notice it seems like time is passing and you are aging, because so to speak, when you wake up in the morning, when you believe you woke up in the morning, that ‘waking up’ is only based on the assumption you sleep, and that someone ‘wakes up’…. and just like that infinite immeasurable wakefulness believes it is a body or human, aging, and believes wakefulness, itself, is a duality. Contemplate, how awake is the wakefulness of empty space. 

Good point.  I agree after giving it a second  thought.👍

Only the present exists. The past is gone and the future is coming. When it gets
“here” it will be the present. That is why time travel doesn’t exist. The past existed once and the future will exist later, but only the present exists now.

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Of course not. There is a real world.  At this point I'm not really sure what are you talking about .

Could there be an illusion without a reality?

What is the reality of any illusion?

 

“I just found out there's no such thing as the real world, just a lie you've got to rise above.”

No such thing as a real world. 

There is not a real world. This is an oxymoron. 

 

“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.”

-Jesus

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

I don't understand your dichotomy of thought VS perception and sensation. 

It’s not a my or your dichotomy. Those would be thoughts. If that seems semantical or critical, just give it more consideration.

Perception… direct experience; seeing, hearing, smelling, touching, tasting.

Sensation… direct experience, as in the presence of sensation though out the body so to speak. 

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

But certainly not every  word Is a thought.  Nor does the world run by thought .

What word isn’t a thought? 

What thought isn’t an appearance? 

When spoken, what word isn’t vibration / sound?

 

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Evolution requires no thought.

The movement of Earth's tectonic plates, that can create mountains, requires no thought. The sun, by it's emission of photons, allowed life to come into existence and flourish.

I'm sure that there are many more examples.

Believe it or not, there are as many examples as there are thoughts which arise as labels. But again, what is the the ultimately reality which no word encapsulates? 

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

I do not concede that nothing could exist apart from thought, and even though that the cosmos appears as one gigantic thought of God.. The universe thus indicates intelligence and purposed design.  Which are real .

Cessation is nothing existing without thought, and of course not even. The thought can arise, ‘the cosmos appears as one gigantic thought of God’. But the ultimate reality, reality as it is, or simply the truth, is not a thought of God. Simultaneously there is nothing wrong or bad about such a thought, and the very activity of the thought is the self imposed veiling of the truth. 

 

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Get out of your house .breath the air. Gaze at the sun .Notice that they exist without any need for thought to arise (which only labels it but doesn't give it reality or unreality).

I’m in the woods lol. But thanks just the same and you as well! I just popped into a grocery store for something to drink and of course, guess what song was playing. 

It’s the ineffable magic, the actuality, the truth which can not even truly be pointed to which is what the pointing is all about. Not arguing, debating, thinking, conceding or not, being right, there being a right & wrong, good & bad, etc.  

[Phil]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Metaphysics means, literally, the study of that which is “beyond physics”. It deals with questions that cannot be settled by looking at empirical facts or by doing scientific experiments. 

Understood, yet, that literally couldn’t be more of a misunderstanding, and therein highly misleading misinformation. 

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Each side’s position rests on a metaphysical (unprovable) assumption.

The assumption is there are sides. 

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

So you are not escaping this problem. 

Assumptions aren’t problems, they’re as directly experienced, assumptions, thoughts. No one’s in a problem or assumption; no one’s in thoughts. 

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

You also don't like to question the notion that the self might exist. And that it's just not what you think it is .

Not really sure where that notion comes from. Of course infinite self exists & isn’t conceptualizable.  

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Good explanation. But notice that attention is directed towards something which feels good . So the good feeling lies in the activity itself (the examples I mentioned).

On a tangent point : why do you always say "so to speak "? I'm right in that you want to be 100% perfect In articulating every word you write 😅

There is as much some thing which attention is directed towards as there is a self which is or could be right.

Thoughts arise, fingers type; there is no thinker, thinking, writer writing, or doer doing. Reality is effortless; pure spontaneity, absolutely free, creator-creating-creation, nondual. All duality is implied only by thoughts, and therein linguistics. ‘So to speak’ is said respectfully & mindfully of this, whereas some words or phrases seem to imply duality where there is not. The assumption is the ‘you which always says’, hence the clarification. There is no sayer. Non-misinformation, non-misleading is pure joy. Aligned & therein dispelled conscience (so to speak). 

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Depends on how you define consciousness. If you believe consciousness is only present in the HomoSapiens species, the answer is 1. If you believe only creatures are conscious, then add one state for each genus. Maybe you believe consciousness is simply another word for “life.” if so, the number of states is in the billions.

Consciousness is undefinable as there is no separate self which is separate of consciousness which is or could be defining consciousness, such as the rhetoric of there being states of consciousness. These are only thoughts believed and unfortunately conjecture, or, “garbage”, ignorance. Of course don’t take a my word for it, inspect, see this for yourself as yourself. Notice billions is another thought, and is not any ‘thing’ in perception or sensation. Be mindful of  reason, honesty & integrity in inspection. Keep questioning & investigating to decipher truth; not to  debate, argue, be right, project, attempt to ascertain who is right, trustworthy, most woke, etc, etc. ‘Listen’ to resonance. 

 

“When I was a child I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; now that I have become a man, I am done with childish ways and have put them aside.”

-Jesus

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

How can I inspect without using any concepts whatsoever?   

Meditatively, sincerely, calmly, patiently, humbly, kindly, lovingly. 

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Again a human is a word. A label . But what the actual thing thats being referred to with the label ?

The actuality to which words point isn’t a thing. 

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

I mean why the hell does labels and thoughts exist in the first place ?

Communication, the expansion of the universe, joy, fun, creating. Ultimately though, for no reason or purpose at all. Just for you. 

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Good point.  I agree after giving it a second  thought.👍

🍻🤍

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

 

Only the present exists. The past is gone and the future is coming. When it gets
“here” it will be the present. That is why time travel doesn’t exist. The past existed once and the future will exist later, but only the present exists now.

The past isn’t gone, it’s present as a thought that there is or was a past. 

Likewise the future isn’t coming. 

There is no later. 

You are creating reality, as in experience, now…  and of course, not even. 

[Someone here]

19 minutes ago, Phil said:

Could there be an illusion without a reality?

What is the reality of any illusion?

"Illusions " do not exist.  The very word implies that . If it did exist then we would call it real .

As an example..are dreams real or illusory?   Well ,since you experience them and live them fully ..then they are real . You only call them Illusions because you wake up/ break out of them into the waking world.  Maybe the waking world is another kind of a dream. Maybe there is no ending to waking up .

23 minutes ago, Phil said:

just found out there's no such thing as the real world, just a lie you've got to rise above.”

No such thing as a real world. 

There is not a real world. This is an oxymoron. 

So your whole problem is nitpicking at the word "thing "? Fine ,call it nothing if you like .but obviously something exists or there is an experience of some kind taking place in consciousness right now . 

25 minutes ago, Phil said:

Perception… direct experience; seeing, hearing, smelling, touching, tasting.

Sensation… direct experience, as in the presence of sensation though out the body so to speak

35 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

. 

Yeah. But I can play your Phil  role right now and tell you that "body " is  a thought..and tasting is a thought ...because you call everything a thought.  For example you call people a thought. When you can just call them perceptions . 

Anyways my points is that your distinctions of (thougt -perception -sensation ) is arbitrary.  You can call anything  a thought or no-thought. 

29 minutes ago, Phil said:

What word isn’t a thought? 

What thought isn’t an appearance? 

When spoken, what word isn’t vibration / sound?

You can write down the Letter A on a piece of paper . Is that Letter a thought? It is a thought if you think about it ..but as a written word it becomes a perception. 

32 minutes ago, Phil said:

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound

No. If you are a solipsist. 

Yes. If you are a materialist.

34 minutes ago, Phil said:

what is the the ultimately reality which no word encapsulates? 

It can't be spoken . The part (word) can't encompass the whole (all of reality).

36 minutes ago, Phil said:

The thought can arise, ‘the cosmos appears as one gigantic thought of God’. But the ultimate reality, reality as it is, or simply the truth, is not a thought of God. Simultaneously there is nothing wrong or bad about such a thought, and the very activity of the thought Is the self imposed veiling of the truth.

I agree 👍. 

Its just "what is " .

No one particular thought encompasses it fully.

39 minutes ago, Phil said:

I’m in the woods lol. But thanks just the same and you as well! I just popped into a grocery store for something to drink and of course, guess what song was playing. 

It’s the ineffable magic, the actuality, the truth which can not even truly be pointed to which is what the pointing is all about. Not arguing, debating, thinking, conceding or not, being right, there being a right & wrong, good & bad,

😄🙏

OK enough debates  .let's get back to journaling about how I feel!

 

Thanks for your participation and patience 🙏.