How I feel-the suppressed expressed

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Devin said:

Yep, only in thought

So Eiffel Tower doesn't exist because you are not seeing it right now ?

How did you come to this conclusion? 

I guess I understand your point ,but not your justification for it. 

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, Devin said:

If I"go" to the Eiffel tower then it will exist then.

 

Justification;

 

one experience means zero jealousy and judgment, zero fear.

 

I want things, I do the dreamboard thing, and I do things to attain those, I go down that path. But what's the best way to accomplish something, the best way to be productive? being joyfully ecstatic to do it is how. What holds people back from being joyfully ecstatic? Jealousy, judgement, fear,.....

 

So to choose not to follow those beliefs that other experiences are happening is a no brainer

 

If I "go" to the Eiffel tower, as I "go" I am creating the experience as I "go", the plane, the people, France; it is created as I "go"

Have you looked the measurement proplem in quantum mechanics?  There exists a superposition of possible states  that permeates the spacetime, unless you make a measurement. An act of observation causes the wavefunction to collapse, and takes a finite state. That doesn't mean your eyes need to be open in order to experience the world. Think about the blind people. They do percieve the structure of our world through other senses.

there is going to be sunrise, sunset, motion of the heavenly objects wether one lives, or dies. 

I guess you should deeply contemplate the following question:

Can the universe exist without us?

I can't possibly know the answer. I'm trying to.

The world is strange and ethereal.

[Someone here]

15 minutes ago, Devin said:

What is your justification in your belief that it does exist when you're not experiencing it? And how is that working out for the people with that belief?

For me personally, I don't know . Could be .and couldn't be .I honestly don't know. I'm being honest about it .but you are the one who claims to know,so you must provide your evidence. 

It's working out perfectly. You travel to a different country using an airplane assuming that the foreign country exists somewhere on planet earth and that you are moving  your consciousness there . So the belief in an objective external reality is more handy and practical than the solipsistic paradigm. 

13 minutes ago, Devin said:

What is a thought like for someone born blind and deaf?

 

I don't just mean the Eiffel tower visually, the entire experience, smells, sounds, textures, physical feeling of things

I don't know .I never experienced being deaf and blind .so I can't judge correctly. Perhaps you tell me? 

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Devin said:

My evidence is that it's not proven that other experiences are happening. It's obviously a belief, and that belief comes with only problems. If you try it and don't like it you can go back to believing.

 

Its the same as your "feeling"/"intuition"

Well, To the best of my knowledge, no one has come up with an adequate solution to the so-called "problem of other minds". [Non-lucid] dreams are an amusing proof of concept for solipsism.

 

Really, nothing but Occam's Razor stands in the way. It's simpler to posit a world full of similar real conscious beings than one that has one such being and a load of fakes.

The philisophical answer is that you can’t, although it seems unlikely, because if the entire observable universe is part of the projection then there is nothing to compare it to show what part is the projection.

 

You might think this means you should live your life as if this was true, just in case. This is folly, because there are any number of solipsistic explanations for the universe (the Matrix, aliens running tests, advanced simulation, preserve to keep humans in because they are too dangerous for the galaxy, everything is a dream etc) ..all equally unprovable, 

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Devin said:

So, I'm not saying to believe nothing else exists, I'm saying just don't believe it does. Don't use that belief to live by, live by your intuition, think like the blind deaf person

I'm either gonna believe there are others and objective reality or I'm not .there is no middle point . And so far ..I find the evidence compelling for the existence of objective reality populated by 8 billion conscious human being. 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

I'm either gonna believe there are others and objective reality or I'm not .there is no middle point . And so far ..I find the evidence compelling for the existence of objective reality populated by 8 billion conscious human being. 

Kinda circular logic though isn’t it? 

[Someone here]

@Devin @Phil i think about this literally every second, and it makes me panic all the time. What if all the people I’ve grown to love are just mindless soul-less simulations and everything is just an illusion. And what if you are just part of my imagination? I just want to let you know that I see and think and I know I exist, so if you are really real don’t worry because I am not a figment of your imagination. I actually exist. I just wish I felt the same about you. Sorry if this is confusing but this is what I’ve been struggling with and I just need to get my feelings out.

[Phil]

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Devin @Phil i think about this literally every second, and it makes me panic all the time. What if all the people I’ve grown to love are just mindless soul-less simulations and everything is just an illusion. And what if you are just part of my imagination? I just want to let you know that I see and think and I know I exist, so if you are really real don’t worry because I am not a figment of your imagination. I actually exist. I just wish I felt the same about you. Sorry if this is confusing but this is what I’ve been struggling with and I just need to get my feelings out.

No need to apologize whatsoever. I appreciate your concern on my behalf, but I’m definitely not worrying about what’s real. ☺️

 

The misinformation you’re struggling with wasn’t even available when I was on the path as Youtube wasn’t really a thing yet. I’d keep doing exactly what you’re doing, expressing and emptying out of what doesn’t resonate with you. 

[Someone here]

@Phil thanks .i guess I can only overcome my fear of solipsism by facing it head on . So let me know if you are ready to have a discussion about solipsism and how to go about debunking it .

It all started with Leo Gura's solipsism video.  Here:

 

If you remember, he deleted it after posting it for few hours .but some people reposted it in audio only version. 

For some reason I can't get it out of my head. I listen to it daily and The problem is it makes so much sense . There can only be one subjective experience or POV happening at  a time . And that is of course ME. Who else could it be ? But on the other hand it feels off .I don't like how solipsism makes me feel ,even though I can't disprove it . I started developing paranoia over it .

When I walk along the street, I’m always looking over my shoulder, watching every stranger that passes me. Did they look at me a moment too long? Are they part of the whole scheme, this world created to torment me? My family members are being nice, they trying to make me trust them. Make me let me guard down so they can destroy me. Everyone’s part of it, this plot, my everyone movement is watched. There are eyes everywhere, wherever I go I can feel them burning into my back. There’s a coincidence, maybe I thought something and then it happened. Suddenly I’m on edge, in my head there’s no such thing as coincidences, I’m on high alert, my fight or flight instincts kicking in. I must be prepared for everything, every moment is dangerous. Does that make sense?

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Devin said:

I know you're real. Solipsism is faulty, it's not infinity, why wouldn't God be able to make other beings capable of their own free will and thought, that's obviously possible and the case. Infinity right? Then everything is possible.

Unfortunately solipsism is unfalsifiable. You can't prove it right. But you can't prove it wrong either .

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Devin said:

Yes you can, if whatever can create whatever we have, anything can be created, as in more than one person

It "can". I will grant ya that .but that doesn't necessarily mean that it "does".

[Phil]

@Someone here

 

All discord (suffering, anxiety, paranoia, etc) is misunderstanding. 

When you see what the misunderstanding is and understand why it feels like it does (suffering), you inherently feel alignment, which is to say you feel the way you want to feel (not suffering, anxiety, paranoia, etc). 

 

As we go, you’ll have to ask more & more specific questions, for anything you still aren’t understanding and are feeling discord with.

If you do, it will result in no longer feeling the discord (anxiety, suffering, paranoia, etc). 

 

Fair enough?

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

 

All discord (suffering, anxiety, etc) is misunderstanding. 

When you see what the misunderstanding is and understand why it feels like it does (suffering), you inherently feel alignment, which is to say you feel the way you want to feel (not suffering, anxiety, etc). 

 

As we go, you’ll have to ask more & more specific questions, for anything you still aren’t understanding and are feeling discord with.

 

Fair enough?

Yeah pretty much.

I agree The root cause of suffering is ignorance and misunderstanding. Said another way, suffering arises due to our own beliefs and concepts. It is a reaction that happens due to external events/happenings that arise due to our current understanding/misunderstanding.

 

So let's get into the specific questions:

1-does the world still exist when I close my eyes ?.

2-does the world exist when I cease being conscious of it (like deep sleep)?

3-i know I exist ,how can I be sure that other people exist ?

4-i only ever experience my own vantage point in reality ,I have no access to other's POV ,therefore how can I know that anyone but myself truly exist,?

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

It is a reaction that happens due to external events/happenings that arise due to our current understanding/misunderstanding.

You’ve just changed the context of what was said by adding misunderstanding to what was said.  Are you willing to consider this (above) is a misunderstanding? 

 

 

Talking through text here vs through Zoom greatly limits communication (imo by loosely 95%) and leaves much room for more misunderstanding, such as what just transpired.  

 

The misunderstanding which just now occurred is the same as the misunderstanding regarding a session. There is what your idea of a session with me is and how that idea feels… and there is directly experiencing a session with me and how that feels. 

 

If there is fear or anxiety felt about doing a session together - since you have’t actually experienced a session -  any fear or anxiety felt - can not be indicative of or related to directly experiencing a session - and can only be how your idea of what a session would be like, feels. 

If by any chance you are willing to have a session at no charge today, just let me know. Otherwise I’ll just proceed here. 

 

Do you understand what’s being said here?

Do you see that you just changed the context of what was said, and then said let’s proceed?

Do you understand that in doing so… you are reasserting your misunderstanding and believing proceeding in spite of this is going to help? 

Do you see that you are proceeding without having actually understood what was said yet? 

This is very important, critical, with respect to not experiencing fear, anxiety or paranoia, etc anymore. 

 

[Someone here]

 

I appreciate your offer to have a free session with you.  Although money is no biggie. Obviously you need to be charged for life coaching.  You do already a great service on this platform (this forum ).

however I'm really really sorry ,I can't have a Zoom call with you . I'm extremely shy and  introverted  to the point I will just nod my head to everything you say without engaging in actual conversation.

I Would be willing to bet it’s not i can’t, i just don’t. I generally do not say Hi first. It’s not that I want people come to me, it’s that I don’t want to be a bother and make them feel obligated to have a conversation.

When I was in high school I was the exact same way. I would be in class, not reach out.. but when I was approached, I was very welcoming. A friend later pointed that out to me saying that I do talk, but people need to approach me. After that, it’s like unlocking a new character to play with if anything.

It’s not a matter of difficulty in communicating with others, maybe it’s lack of interest in them or just not desiring company to the extent or exterting my energy? Regardless, my energy attracts my company.  I'm usually friendly when approached, there’s no reason to feel bad about anything. Sorry again but I can't. 

 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Phil thanks .i guess I can only overcome my fear of solipsism by facing it head on . So let me know if you are ready to have a discussion about solipsism and how to go about debunking it .

It all started with Leo Gura's solipsism video.  Here:

 

If you remember, he deleted it after posting it for few hours .but some people reposted it in audio only version. 

For some reason I can't get it out of my head. I listen to it daily and The problem is it makes so much sense . There can only be one subjective experience or POV happening at  a time . And that is of course ME. Who else could it be ? But on the other hand it feels off .I don't like how solipsism makes me feel ,even though I can't disprove it . I started developing paranoia over it .

When I walk along the street, I’m always looking over my shoulder, watching every stranger that passes me. Did they look at me a moment too long? Are they part of the whole scheme, this world created to torment me? My family members are being nice, they trying to make me trust them. Make me let me guard down so they can destroy me. Everyone’s part of it, this plot, my everyone movement is watched. There are eyes everywhere, wherever I go I can feel them burning into my back. There’s a coincidence, maybe I thought something and then it happened. Suddenly I’m on edge, in my head there’s no such thing as coincidences, I’m on high alert, my fight or flight instincts kicking in. I must be prepared for everything, every moment is dangerous. Does that make sense?

It might seem like I’m being pedantic, semantical, or self righteous, but clarity, or clear communication,  is critical to dispelling the misunderstandings, and therein bringing an end to the anxiety, fear, paranoia, etc, you’re experiencing. It’s doubly critical, because a very key aspect of the misunderstandings is conjecture that you learned from Leo, and Leo also asserts ignorance & misunderstanding via suppression and employs the same deflection by re-contextualization mechanism, and is also experiencing the suffering of doing so. Evidenced by saying ‘we have a problem’ and asking someone to leave for stating the truth, that there aren’t separate selves, and therein there isn’t a you which avoids the truth. Then there is the immature mind games, or re-contextualized as “you’re a Neo-Advaita teacher & these are your teachings”, “you’re a great guy”, or “that’s not God-consciousness”. It’s just not his idea of God-consciousness, just like it is only his idea that there is a you which avoids the truth. It’s really just two ways of pointing to nonduality (not solipsism!). There’s a plethora of examples available on his forum everyday, but that kind of sums it up easily. 

 

Also, using psychedelics and the mechanism of re-contextualizing are something you both share, and is very much related to the suffering & misunderstanding, and why you’re struggling to see this. 

[Phil]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 

I appreciate your offer to have a free session with you.  Although money is no biggie. Obviously you need to be charged for life coaching. 

I don’t really offer life coaching per se. It’s listed that way on Google because that’s the closest category they have so far. 

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You do already a great service on this platform (this forum ).

however I'm really really sorry ,I can't have a Zoom call with you .

 

I'm extremely shy and  introverted  to the point I will just nod my head to everything you say without engaging in actual conversation.

This is your idea of how it will go, not the actual experience. Very important distinction which underlies all of the discord. 

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I Would be willing to bet it’s not i can’t, i just don’t. I generally do not say Hi first. It’s not that I want people come to me, it’s that I don’t want to be a bother and make them feel obligated to have a conversation.

I’m really not trying to convince you to have a session, just trying to help with the anxiety etc. I don’t have any interest in debating or convincing anyone of anything. 

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

When I was in high school I was the exact same way. I would be in class, not reach out.. but when I was approached, I was very welcoming. A friend later pointed that out to me saying that I do talk, but people need to approach me. After that, it’s like unlocking a new character to play with if anything.

It’s not a matter of difficulty in communicating with others, maybe it’s lack of interest in them or just not desiring company to the extent or exterting my energy?

It’s misunderstanding & beliefs which just haven’t been inspected and aligned yet. 

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Regardless, my energy attracts my company.  I'm usually friendly when approached, there’s no reason to feel bad about anything. Sorry again but I can't. 

 

No worries at all. The main point was to communicate that we’re working through a medium here which inherently greatly limits communication. 

[Phil]

@Someone here

Completely up to you if you want to continue here.

If so, do you recognize the difference between an idea or belief about something, vs the direct experience? 

[Phil]

Honestly, I should probably just stay out of your journal. 😬

Much love. 🤍

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, Phil said:

No worries at all. The main point was to communicate that we’re working through a medium here which inherently greatly limits communication

Thanks for your understanding.

I understand.  But you are indeed "a great guy ". Your only intention is to help resolving my suffering around some weird philosophical concepts . But imo Text is not that much limiting. I have  never before communicated with you except via Text .and I learned a lot . Tbh I don't think a call is Nesscary. We can discuss it here (if you don'timd ).  

So I asked you a few questions  here..would be interested to hear your take on them :

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

So let's get into the specific questions:

1-does the world still exist when I close my eyes ?.

2-does the world exist when I cease being conscious of it (like deep sleep)?

3-i know I exist ,how can I be sure that other people exist ?

4-i only ever experience my own vantage point in reality ,I have no access to other's POV ,therefore how can I know that anyone but myself truly exist,?

 

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

Completely up to you if you want to continue here.

If so, do you recognize the difference between an idea or belief about something, vs the direct experience? 

Yes .the idea of how beautiful a sunset is ,is not the actual experience of seeing an epic sunset. And idea of extreme torture is not the same as being nailed on the cross lilke Jesus and being tortured to death .

I'm not sure what exactly are you trying to build upon this distinction (since its not about having a session with you,I guess).