What do you enjoy about people and society?

[Devin]

I was going to title this "wanting less and less"

 

More and more I'm just seeing less and less of anything people or my being with them has to offer me. I see less and less pleasure with people and society, it just seems more and more empty, predictable, and like I'm deceiving myself one way or the other.

 

What do you enjoy about people and society? I have a life envisioned, but I just see so many things that contradict the possibility, I see no one living lives like what I want.

 

I look all around and I just think, no thanks, I'll pass. But I want a life with people. I guess I just need to appreciate the process and if it happens great and if not I had the process I at least appreciated, right?

Edited October 3, 2022 by Devin

[Devin]

It's like, this one thing is all I care to work towards, but it doesn't look real promising, the closer and closer I get the more mirage it appears to have been. 

 

But I can't think of anything else I want to work toward.

[Devin]

I can't see pleasure in being with People I see as unconscious and disingenuous, I see no point. And even if I found a decent wife and had kids, what's the point if you're essentially living in a world of the walking dead?

 

I don't care about changing the world anymore, trying to make it better, or infuse love. The world seems fake to me, like I'm just fooling myself

Edited October 3, 2022 by Devin

[Devin]

I enjoy things, but I want to "create" something, what comes to mind is something that seems unrealistic, and nothing else is coming to mind.

[Devin]

I do enjoy this walk though, it just seems like I could find something real I should actually walk toward though, rather than Atlantis.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Devin

[Devin]

Ooh. I guess since I'm not sure if it exists, this is the only way to be happily surprised when I get there!!!!

 

Good talk guys, thanks😆😆😆

 

But if anyone wants to offer anything I would still appreciate it.

I feel doubt sometimes 😁, and pessimism!!!

Edited October 3, 2022 by Devin

[Phil]

On 10/3/2022 at 1:22 PM, Devin said:

What do you enjoy about people and society?

Family. Cleaning, cooking, games, movies, school stuff & work, I love doing pretty much anything with em. Even going to the grocery store is fun & a joy. Lately I’ve been teaching the little one’s poker & other card games. They like Guts, but their favorite is Bullshit, because they get to say bullshit. My son milks every ounce out of it. I swear he slows time down and then delivers it as if he were Shakespeare or something. 

 

I also love the dreamboards. We each have one & we have a paper scroll hanging on the wall, which anyone can write anything they think of that they want to experience on. Then whenever we’re thinking about something to do  or going somewhere, we can just look at the communal list and check a few things off. I also loving helping with what’s on their boards & using the emotional scale with em. ☺️  I also really love hanging with friends, spending time with the people I work with, and really pretty much anybody. I love the experience so to speak of myself in & as every one, of God behind the gas station counter, the donut shop, the post office, etc.

 

On 10/3/2022 at 1:22 PM, Devin said:

it just seems more and more empty, predictable, and like I'm deceiving myself one way or the other.

 

On 10/3/2022 at 1:35 PM, Devin said:

the closer and closer I get the more mirage it appears to have been. 

 

On 10/3/2022 at 1:49 PM, Devin said:

I can't see pleasure in being with People I see as unconscious and disingenuous, I see no point. And even if I found a decent wife and had kids, what's the point if you're essentially living in a world of the walking dead?

 

I don't care about changing the world anymore, trying to make it better, or infuse love. The world seems fake to me, like I'm just fooling myself

If it’s helpful… there might be a pinch of solipsism & conjecture via truth purporting that led to these lackluster perspectives. Life is nothing if not unpredictable, and there isn’t actually any ‘I’m deceiving myself’ going on. There’d have to be two. I suspect there is an assumed “understanding” of self-deception, and suggest considering self-deception is a misunderstanding. I can see how solipsism & the conjecture of self-deception would seem to add the ‘mirage’ factor. Ideologies are ideal for one, but that doesn’t make them ideal objectively, or so to speak, for you.  That’s the nature of ideology. The Truth is greater, bigger & better than any ideologies, especially these if indeed that is the case.

 

There aren’t degrees of wakefulness / awareness / consciousness, because there aren’t any enlightened people, selves or knowers of consciousness. One arrives at this misnomer by purporting, or, ‘separate self’ aggrandizing, or, simply put spiritual ego. It’s a hanging onto the materialist paradigm of consciousness arising from people, of people being conscious or unconscious, and degrees therein… while The Truth, wakefulness / awareness / consciousness, remains inseparably & immeasurably infinite.

 

Consciousness isn’t disingenuous, ‘it’s’ unconditional. I can see how these conceptualizations might leave one at a loss for enjoying the ‘togetherness’ of creation, as the ideologies (solipsism, materialist-spiritual-ego-paradigm, reality as an illusion / mirage) arise from suppression & therein, isolation.

 

The root of this, wether first hand or adopted via conjecture, is thought attachment, namely the belief that reality is an illusion. Reality’s definitely real, not an illusion. Thought & perception are apparent, and indeed very real. The ‘separate self’, such as ‘the knower’, or ‘measurer’, is only thought / of thoughts, and is illusory. An illusion of believing self referential thoughts. World wise, it’s perfection. Change what you like if you like, but it is already and always remains the perfection that is pure consciousness.

[Devin]

@Phil thanks, a lot to digest there.

[Blessed2]

On 10/3/2022 at 8:49 PM, Devin said:

I can't see pleasure in being with People I see as unconscious and disingenuous, I see no point.

 

Something came to mind... Could it be that you actually do see a point (having fun, bonding, making love) and you actually do want all sorts of people around you, but there is an underlying belief saying stuff like "I'm not good enough" or "I need to make an impression" or "others wouldn't love me as I am" etc. which results in sort of resentment toward other people, shame, and also a form of arrogance, judging and valuing others, and also some ideology, which makes bonding and simply having fun kind lost in the mess?

 

On 10/3/2022 at 8:49 PM, Devin said:

And even if I found a decent wife and had kids, what's the point if you're essentially living in a world of the walking dead?

 

I agree with Phil that solipsism and ideology may play a factor here. You are not living in a world of the walking dead. The people around you are living, feeling beings. We have our stories, joys and sorrows, loneliness and bonding, just like you do. And we would all love a friend, more bonding and connection, and love.

 

You can probably feel it at times, as we all do. The longing for each other. For something greater than none of us are alone.

 

This might be a shot in the dark, but you know those stories about Jesus healing blind people etc? What do you think went down there? Some sort of solipsistic imagination magic, or something different? Why did Jesus heal others?

[Devin]

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Something came to mind... Could it be that you actually do see a point (having fun, bonding, making love) and you actually do want all sorts of people around you, but there is an underlying belief saying stuff like  "others wouldn't love me as I am" etc. which results in sort of resentment toward other people, shame, and also a form of arrogance, judging and valuing others, and also some ideology, which makes bonding and simply having fun kind lost in the mess?

I appreciate this, I want that desire, I feel like I need to uncover something for it

 

yeah, I feel no love from others, I've never felt loved from people. I don't think I resent them though. The bonding feels surface level, the fun is independent of being with them.

 

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

I agree with Phil that solipsism and ideology may play a factor here. You are not living in a world of the walking dead. The people around you are living, feeling beings. We have our stories, joys and sorrows, loneliness and bonding, just like you do. And we would all love a friend, more bonding and connection, and love.

 

You can probably feel it at times, as we all do. The longing for each other. For something greater than none of us are alone.

 

This might be a shot in the dark, but you know those stories about Jesus healing blind people etc? What do you think went down there? Some sort of solipsistic imagination magic, or something different? Why did Jesus heal others?

I don't remember feeling a longing for others besides wanting to be accepted. I'm trying the dream boarding with the type of people I would want in my life.

 

I think Jesus healed others to show infinity, that only we make our limits.

 

I will try to remember times when I enjoyed being with them though, there are many, they get overshadowed by judgement is what I think is the problem, which I feel like I'm letting go of.

 

I've actually begun imagining re connecting, although to a lesser degree, with my family, and if I can enjoy them I can enjoy anyone. The only one experience is happening, is actually changing the way I view things, there's like no judgement.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Devin

[Devin]

Definitely something there; I just drove through Amish area, when you pass them EVERYONE waves at you, I cried😂. I don't often drive through there. Most concentration of buggies I've ever passed on the road. 😂😂😂 literally, I've never passed so many, THEY ALL WAVED, legit little kid waving the hand type, not just like a slight raise

Edited October 6, 2022 by Devin

[Devin]

On 10/4/2022 at 2:42 PM, Phil said:

Family. Cleaning, cooking, games, movies, school stuff & work, I love doing pretty much anything with em. Even going to the grocery store is fun & a joy. Lately I’ve been teaching the little one’s poker & other card games. They like Guts, but their favorite is Bullshit, because they get to say bullshit. My son milks every ounce out of it. I swear he slows time down and then delivers it as if he were Shakespeare or something. 

 

I also love the dreamboards. We each have one & we have a paper scroll hanging on the wall, which anyone can write anything they think of that they want to experience on. Then whenever we’re thinking about something to do  or going somewhere, we can just look at the communal list and check a few things off. I also loving helping with what’s on their boards & using the emotional scale with em. ☺️  I also really love hanging with friends, spending time with the people I work with, and really pretty much anybody. I love the experience so to speak of myself in & as every one, of God behind the gas station counter, the donut shop, the post office, etc.

 

 

 

If it’s helpful… there might be a pinch of solipsism & conjecture via truth purporting that led to these lackluster perspectives. Life is nothing if not unpredictable, and there isn’t actually any ‘I’m deceiving myself’ going on. There’d have to be two. I suspect there is an assumed “understanding” of self-deception, and suggest considering self-deception is a misunderstanding. I can see how solipsism & the conjecture of self-deception would seem to add the ‘mirage’ factor. Ideologies are ideal for one, but that doesn’t make them ideal objectively, or so to speak, for you.  That’s the nature of ideology. The Truth is greater, bigger & better than any ideologies, especially these if indeed that is the case.

 

There aren’t degrees of wakefulness / awareness / consciousness, because there aren’t any enlightened people, selves or knowers of consciousness. One arrives at this misnomer by purporting, or, ‘separate self’ aggrandizing, or, simply put spiritual ego. It’s a hanging onto the materialist paradigm of consciousness arising from people, of people being conscious or unconscious, and degrees therein… while The Truth, wakefulness / awareness / consciousness, remains inseparably & immeasurably infinite.

 

Consciousness isn’t disingenuous, ‘it’s’ unconditional. I can see how these conceptualizations might leave one at a loss for enjoying the ‘togetherness’ of creation, as the ideologies (solipsism, materialist-spiritual-ego-paradigm, reality as an illusion / mirage) arise from suppression & therein, isolation.

 

The root of this, wether first hand or adopted via conjecture, is thought attachment, namely the belief that reality is an illusion. Reality’s definitely real, not an illusion. Thought & perception are apparent, and indeed very real. The ‘separate self’, such as ‘the knower’, or ‘measurer’, is only thought / of thoughts, and is illusory. An illusion of believing self referential thoughts. World wise, it’s perfection. Change what you like if you like, but it is already and always remains the perfection that is pure consciousness.

 

Doesn't it really all just come down to intuition at the end of the day? Aligning "knowing" or action with intuition?

 

The reason I ask is I have a sticking point that's possibly just semantics;

Conscious creating and dream boarding are based on believing a self referential thought right? It's things "I" want to experience, that's believing what I would deem self referential thought. 

 

All the other stuff like no separate selves, .... , that's just digging into and uncovering; when you feel unease right? Figuring out what your intuition is going haywire over?

Figuring out why you're thinking you shouldn't follow your intuition?

 

It's all centered on intuition right?

 

I don't like that, I don't see how that's conscious creating. To me the only difference between this and following ego is that you feel "good" on this and "bad" on ego, which to me is aversion, it's fear.

 

To me conscious and aware means you explore, experience, create, anything and everything.

 

I agree following intuition is what evokes or unveils joy, but emotional experience is not able to be put on your dream board if you only ever follow your intuition, it's just pure bliss. Why wouldn't you want the other emotions?

Edited October 20, 2022 by Devin

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Devin said:

 

Doesn't it really all just come down to intuition at the end of the day? Aligning "knowing" or action with intuition?

If you were in college and someone asked how you got there you might answer, tuition. In that sense being in college is via tuition. If someone asked how did you get into here as in the universe, you might be at a loss for an answer or believe you were born. The intuition is like Hansel & Gretel’s breadcrumbs leading back to the answer. With college you know & understand how you got there. With the answer there is no knowing or understanding of the answer. In the inwards backwards trail of breadcrumbs “the knower” and the “understander” are met with clarity therein are an experience of thoughts about; same as “unicorn”. 

 

1 hour ago, Devin said:

 

The reason I ask is I have a sticking point that's possibly just semantics;

Conscious creating and dream boarding are based on believing a self referential thought right?

No. 

 

1 hour ago, Devin said:

It's things "I" want to experience, that's believing what I would deem self referential thought. 

No. The I is always the I of I Am. What follows is apparent, experiential, creation. This is why we have to make up names for each other, but never once has the true name changed. This is also why the the experience of speaking the word “you” requires an outward movement of the mouth / lips, and the true name is an inward opening movement. 

 

1 hour ago, Devin said:

 

All the other stuff like no separate selves, .... , that's just digging into and uncovering; when you feel unease right? Figuring out what your intuition is going haywire over?

No. There really aren’t separate selves / there is only infinite being. The pointing of ‘there are no separate selves’ is superior & in alignment with the truth, or nonduality. Nonduality means, not two. This is different than saying you are infinite, you are God, or even oneness, because those statements are ever so slightly discordant. Although the opposite isn’t true either (saying you are not infinite, not God, or not one). 

 

1 hour ago, Devin said:

Figuring out why you're thinking you shouldn't follow your intuition?

No. There is no thinker. Those would just be discordant thoughts, most of which are ‘self’ (separate) referential. 

 

1 hour ago, Devin said:

It's all centered on intuition right?

No. 

 

1 hour ago, Devin said:

 

I don't like that, I don't see how that's conscious creating. To me the only difference between this and following ego is that you feel "good" on this and "bad" on ego, which to me is aversion, it's fear.

When you speak / type these words, you create. Just as there is no thinker, there is no feeler. Ego can’t be followed, because it’s a belief which awareness is prior to & aware of. Fear is an emotion. Aversion is averting from feeling. 

 

1 hour ago, Devin said:

To me conscious and aware means you explore, experience, create, anything and everything.

It’s derivative of the separate self or ‘ego’ purporting to be sharing the nondual understanding. Aka conjecture. Not to imply that there’s anything against exploring, experiencing, or creating. 

 

1 hour ago, Devin said:

I agree following intuition is what evokes or unveils joy, but emotional experience is not able to be put on your dream board if you only ever follow your intuition, it's just pure bliss. Why wouldn't you want the other emotions?

Check & see. I bet you could write emotion experience on your dreamboard & follow intuition. Not sure where the notion of not wanting other emotions came from. 

[Devin]

I don't know Phil, I hope you're happy and this all works well for you, it just seems counter opposed to me.

[Phil]

If it’s insightful…

On 10/3/2022 at 1:49 PM, Devin said:

I can't see pleasure in being with People I see as unconscious and disingenuous, I see no point

Consider the law of attraction at play here. If you’re experiencing unconscious and disingenuous people, shine the light of awareness within illuminating the source, en-joy being consciously genuine. Truly see the pointlessness of judgement. 

 

Albeit illusory, ego mind hijacks infinite consciousness via conceptualizing infinite consciousness. Aka spiritual ego, or ‘the emperor’s new clothes’ - the ‘new identity’ as “the knower”, the “one who knows who is and isn’t conscious”. Consciousness is infinite, no beginnings or ending, no separation; thoughts arise. The ‘knower’ is no more than an apparently reoccurring thought, a concept (not an actual separate self) and therein experientially is a discordant partitioning & isolation of the very infinite knowingness awareness of thoughts. This is just another fleeting ‘separate self’, yet another mask along the path. The materialist’s paradigm can not be brought into the actual if you will, because it is only conceptual. It’s let go meditatively, not made a new identity of. 

 

On 10/3/2022 at 1:49 PM, Devin said:

The world seems fake to me, like I'm just fooling myself

The world seeming fake is so to speak ‘you fooling yourself’ via conceptualization. You are yourself, and you are the world. Awareness is aware of and remains ‘unfolded’ by all conceptualization because infinite awareness is aware of only infinite awareness. 

 

On 10/3/2022 at 2:27 PM, Devin said:

I do enjoy this walk though, it just seems like I could find something real I should actually walk toward though, rather than Atlantis.

Trying to find real in reality is like hay looking for hay in a haystack. Meditation is the way-less way. 

 

On 10/6/2022 at 8:06 AM, Devin said:

yeah, I feel no love from others, I've never felt loved from people. I don't think I resent them though. The bonding feels surface level, the fun is independent of being with them.

 Meaning, purpose & value are to the mind as autoimmune is to the body; self-manipulation. 

 

11 hours ago, Devin said:

I don't know Phil, I hope you're happy and this all works well for you, it just seems counter opposed to me.

Let your conditioning (just, only) be your own. That’s more than enough to let go. Don’t add (even more) conjecture to the pile. 

When all the conceptual garbage is taken out, let go, happiness is being (the thoughts) Phil & Devin and was all along. ☺️ 

 

[Devin]

59 minutes ago, Phil said:

If it’s insightful…

Consider the law of attraction at play here. If you’re experiencing unconscious and disingenuous people, shine the light of awareness within illuminating the source, en-joy being consciously genuine. Truly see the pointlessness of judgement. 

 

The more genuine I've become and the closer I live toward the way I want(this is what I mean by conscious), the more it seems others are not. The divide grows wider and wider, and the more I desire genuine and centered people.

 

I don't remember caring for this desire when I was just following along with everyone else. In other areas of life I see how law of attraction worked, in this area it's gone the opposite way.

[Phil]

@Devin

What about without the misappropriation of consciousness? 

Perhaps it is believed something other than consciousness could be conscious… that people are dualistically conscious or unconscious, or varying levels of such as in states of. 

 

What is the obviousness of beauty, prior to self conceptualization? 

Is it not inherent, intrinsic?

 

Perhaps it’s as simple as consciousness is infinite, nondual, no separate selves. 

But that of course would be some ineffable inexplicable magic. 

 

 

 

Maybe try to figure out why you avoid the truth, and consider reception vs manipulation. 

Or just ignore all the vague spiritual mumbo jumbo… but do so consciously. 

😂🙏

 

This came to mind. 

[Devin]

29 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Devin

What about without the misappropriation of consciousness? 

Perhaps it is believed something other than consciousness could be conscious… that people are dualistically conscious or unconscious, or varying levels of such as in states of. 

 

What is the obviousness of beauty, prior to the conceptual? 

 

Perhaps it’s as simple as consciousness is infinite, nondual, no separate selves. 

But that of course would be some ineffable inexplicable magic. 

 

“Spiritual jumbo jumbo”. 

😂🙏

Yes I believe the consciousness belief that you're suggesting I shouldn't. But I think I use the term "conscious" differently than you

 

I would say there is no "beauty" before conceptual beauty, it's a concept, what is just is

 

Consciousness is just a concept as well, in my lingua franca

 

I'll rephrase my initial grievance to see if it makes a difference to you.

I want people in my life that live how they want (not succumbing to outside pressures, not hiding who they are) genuinely joyful, and passionate, and genuinely compassionate. The more I become that, the more it seems others are not, and the more I desire them to be,,,,, and the more I'm turned off by people.

 

I feel something off with people, I'm driven away from people

 

I agree it's with me, I believe in the magic

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Devin

[Devin]

So they can't be conscious, they can't be aware, consciousness is conscious, awareness is awareness🤔.

 

But there's no separation between any of that.

 

I don't see how that plays in, it's almost like saying just accept what's in front of you, that's what there is. But I want this over here that I'm imagining, wanting

 

Just keep going i suppose, see if it comes, if it doesn't I'm not losing anything I want by trying, appreciate what I have, avoid what I don't like such as the current people

Edited October 21, 2022 by Devin

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Devin said:

Yes I believe the consciousness belief that you're suggesting I shouldn't.

Where was it suggested you shouldn’t? 

 

2 hours ago, Devin said:

But I think I use the term "conscious" differently than you

Yes, as ‘of people’, the materialist’s paradigm. But not as simple. The materialist’s paradigm purported as nonduality via thought attachment and then conjectured. Sometimes to see something clearly is to take a long period away from it. 

 

2 hours ago, Devin said:

I would say there is no "beauty" before conceptual beauty, it's a concept, what is just is

A heartbreaking cost for a conceptual hand full of beans.

But ‘three things can not long be hidden’. 

 

2 hours ago, Devin said:

Consciousness is just a concept as well, in my lingua franca

Elaborate…?

 

2 hours ago, Devin said:

 

I'll rephrase my initial grievance to see if it makes a difference to you.

It already didn’t. 🤍

 

2 hours ago, Devin said:

I want people in my life that live how they want (not succumbing to outside pressures, not hiding who they are) genuinely joyful, and passionate, and genuinely compassionate. The more I become that, the more it seems others are not, and the more I desire them to be,,,,, and the more I'm turned off by people.

I feel something off with people, I'm driven away from people

Does that ⬆️ transpire in thought, perception or sensation? 

 

 

2 hours ago, Devin said:

So they can't be conscious, they can't be aware, consciousness is conscious, awareness is awareness🤔.

Infinite is infinite. There is no they sans the activity of thought. 

 

2 hours ago, Devin said:

But there's no separation between any of that.

Nonduality; not even a that.

 

2 hours ago, Devin said:

 

I don't see how that plays in, it's almost like saying just accept what's in front of you, that's what there is.

What Is doesn’t ‘play in’, What Is already Is. 

Conceptualization and conjecture is playing in. 

Nonduality; not even in front. 

 

2 hours ago, Devin said:

But I want this over here that I'm imagining, wanting

If you want a tree to grow, when can you plant the seed? 

When can the tree be?

 

Peace! 🤍

 

This one comes to mind too. For transmutation, the two songs are like cookies & milk. 

 

“Flies in the Vasoline we are, sometimes it blows my mind; keep getting stuck here all the time. Is it you, is it me? Search for things that we can’t see; going blind, out of reach, somewhere in the Vasoline.”