:(

[Blessed2]

I'm starting to feel a bit better. Last night I just started hunting down any discordant thought/belief I could find and imagined them with "apostrophes". And then ask myself could this thought be false. And notice I don't want it to be true.

[Blessed2]

"I should do better"

 

"I'm selfish"

 

"If I don't do X I will just suffer more later"

 

"It is impossible for me to be happy in this situation"

 

"I need to get rid of this emotion because otherwise I'll waste valuable time I could spend feeling amazing"

 

"I might fail"

 

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Blessed2

[Phil]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

I tend to think of thoughts as electrical signals in the brain .and emotions as chemical reactions. 

Happiness to me would be having the right balance of glandular chemical sensations in the bath my brain floats in. It gets complicated to consider how much it is thoughts that have to do with  brain gland and  chemical balance. Thought & emotion don't appear to me to be seperable, and do appear to be interactive, so you get the whole thing backward .

the trick is you can call anything a thought. Because what are you basing this whole categories on (thought, perception &sensation ) ?

If you don’t mind, I’d like to ask you a purely hypothetical question. Then I’ll come right back to that comment and respond. I’m making an assumption in asking this, please let me know if my assumption is incorrect. Assuming you are not a Scientologist, and or that you don’t subscribe to Scientology… 

 

What would you say to someone who is a Scientologist, living on the Sea Org, with respect to helping them to see through Scientology?

[Phil]

@Blessed2
 

51 minutes ago, Devin said:

@Blessed2 awesome

+1 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

If you don’t mind, I’d like to ask you a purely hypothetical question. Then I’ll come right back to that comment and respond. I’m making an assumption in asking this, please let me know if my assumption is incorrect. Assuming you are not a Scientologist, and or that you don’t subscribe to Scientology… 

 

What would you say to someone who is a Scientologist, living on the Sea Org, with respect to helping them to see through Scientology?

There is a difference between depending on science as an epistemic system. And Scientology which Is a cult.
Science is one of the best tools we can use to uncover the truth accurately.
If you are on the side of truth, science is your friend.
If you are on the side of lies and deception, science is your enemy.something like astrology or esoterism oughta suit you better.

Science is simply the observation and explanation of everything, and the explanation is found through following the scientific method and peer review.
The jist of the scientific method is you observe something, hypothesize something about what you observed, test that observation to see if your hypothesis is true.

Scientology likes to present itself as a religion based on science. I tell you it is not at all truth. Science requires scrutiny and criticism. Scientology resents those. Science requires openness, Scientology is against it.
A scientist invites scrutiny. Most of the time he would present opinions opposed to his. Hubbard despised scrutiny he never showed anybody the notes from his “research”. No tabulations or quotes, no references. If you express any criticism about Scientology to a Scientologist, he will call you “an anti religion bigot”.

So, science it is not. Is it a religion? In Scientology there is no compassion no worship of a deity. Just harsh self serving judgment.

So, no religion either. What is it then? It breaks families. It tortures people. It defrauds people for money. It is something between a crime organization and a destructive cult.

Everyone would not like to be a part of this .

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

There is a difference between depending on science as an epistemic system. And Scientology which Is a cult.
Science is one of the best tools we can use to uncover the truth accurately.
If you are on the side of truth, science is your friend.
If you are on the side of lies and deception, science is your enemy.something like astrology or esoterism oughta suit you better.

Science is simply the observation and explanation of everything, and the explanation is found through following the scientific method and peer review.
The jist of the scientific method is you observe something, hypothesize something about what you observed, test that observation to see if your hypothesis is true.

Scientology likes to present itself as a religion based on science. I tell you it is not at all truth. Science requires scrutiny and criticism. Scientology resents those. Science requires openness, Scientology is against it.
A scientist invites scrutiny. Most of the time he would present opinions opposed to his. Hubbard despised scrutiny he never showed anybody the notes from his “research”. No tabulations or quotes, no references. If you express any criticism about Scientology to a Scientologist, he will call you “an anti religion bigot”.

So, science it is not. Is it a religion? In Scientology there is no compassion no worship of a deity. Just harsh self serving judgment.

So, no religion either. What is it then? It breaks families. It tortures people. It defrauds people for money. It is something between a crime organization and a destructive cult.

That’s very clarifying, thanks.

 

Am I understanding you overall…  

Scientology resents scrutiny & criticism, because it is not actually investigative, but purports to be rooted in investigation of truth, or, what’s actual…? And that the result of this is breaking apart families, torturing people as in suffering & anguish, while defrauding people for money…?

 

 

 

[Someone here]

53 minutes ago, Phil said:

That’s very clarifying, thanks.

 

Am I understanding you overall…  

Scientology resents scrutiny & criticism, because it is not actually investigative, but purports to be rooted in investigation of truth, or, what’s actual…? And that the result of this is breaking apart families, torturing people as in suffering & anguish, while defrauding people for money…?

 

 

 

Yes .do you see ripping people off, separating people from their families, running a bait and switch scam as bad?  it really is that bad, It was started by a liar, a misogynist, a fraud, someone who set out to deceive people and did so,
It’s a cult. It’s designed to suck people in, control them, overtake their will and utilize their resources (time, energy and money) to go out and collect more people.

It’s all about accumulating wealth and power at the expense of the gullible, marginalized, hurt, lonely people who want a niche to fit into.

[Phil]

@Someone here

Yeah, I see it as well. 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Everyone would not like to be a part of this .

Yet lots of people do. Many people end up in Scientology. Also many people who are already sailing that Sea Org are told everything you explained about science, etc, yet they still stay. Why do they stay? 

[Someone here]

44 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

Yeah, I see it as well. 

Yet lots of people do. Many people end up in Scientology. Also many people who are already sailing that Sea Org are told everything you explained about science, etc, yet they still stay. Why do they stay? 

Because Scientology sets such high standards and promises so much .Even though they do deliver quite a bit and some of the technology is fabulous (which critics never ever mention);despite all this they don't come through with all their Promises, So everyone to some degree ends up feeling disappointed and disillusioned.

This leads to members taking bizarre and destructive actions to hide or gloss over a the fact that the promises can never be totally fulfilled. And things go South from there.

The sad part is that so much that is good and noble and valuable is being lost. Die hard scientologists and critics alike are both extremists. And blinded by either unreasoning devotion or Seething hatred.Neither one is healthy nor useful, just really sad.

I hope that someday the truly valuable aspects of Scientology can be salvaged for the good of us.

[Phil]

@Someone here

You might very well know more about Scientology than me. 

What is it they actually promise?  And how do they keep intelligent folks to so speak, roped in, buying their courses, etc?

[Blessed2]

Now I'm wondering what total nothingess would feel about any "should"- belief. 😂

 

😂😂😂

 

[Someone here]

@Phil Intelligence plays only a small part of the spiritual equation. Human beings are fragile things when it comes to emotions and spiritual needs. The void can can wide, deep and dark. What does the spirit need? Religion and the fulfillment of the spiritual hunger is incredibly complex. What is a person needing? What are they looking for? Where the answer comes from is not as relevant as the answer itself. Intelligent people are part of all religions. What they seek is there for them. You could say that any religion is a scam or cult. Why do think people commit atrocities in the name of religion? Because they believe it is the right thing to do because their soul’s hunger has been satisfied. Their spiritual needs demands they act a certain way. A perfectly sane electrical engineer is making a bomb to kill people because the answer to his spiritual questions satisfies him. Scientology, as scam or cult? No more or no less than any belief system

[Phil]

25 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Now I'm wondering what total nothingess would feel about any "should"- belief. 😂

 

😂😂😂

 

Exactly! 😂 

 

18 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Phil Intelligence plays only a small part of the spiritual equation. Human beings are fragile things when it comes to emotions and spiritual needs. The void can can wide, deep and dark. What does the spirit need? Religion and the fulfillment of the spiritual hunger is incredibly complex. What is a person needing? What are they looking for? Where the answer comes from is not as relevant as the answer itself. Intelligent people are part of all religions. What they seek is there for them. You could say that any religion is a scam or cult. Why do think people commit atrocities in the name of religion? Because they believe it is the right thing to do because their soul’s hunger has been satisfied. Their spiritual needs demands they act a certain way. A perfectly sane electrical engineer is making a bomb to kill people because the answer to his spiritual questions satisfies him. Scientology, as scam or cult? No more or no less than any belief system

Well now that does sound very complicated. I was just wondering essentially what Scientology’s shtick is, as to what they’re actually promising, and how they keep people hooked. 

 

[Someone here]

14 hours ago, Phil said:

was just wondering essentially what Scientology’s shtick is, as to what they’re actually promising, and how they keep people hooked

I already told you.  It gives you a sense of direction to your ife . A purpose. It satisfies your spiritual needs and cravings. And it gives you a sense of belonging. Like you are a part of a large community or family .

Edited October 5, 2022 by Someone here

[Phil]

@Someone here

That actually sounds pretty good. 

[Phil]

On 10/5/2022 at 7:06 AM, Someone here said:

I already told you.  It gives you a sense of direction to your ife . A purpose. It satisfies your spiritual needs and cravings. And it gives you a sense of belonging. Like you are a part of a large community or family .

Where do I sign up & how much is the first level?

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

Where do I sign up & how much is the first level?

What am I supposed to say to this 😅? Are you jist  you trolling or passing time ?

If you value your family connections and all future financial stability including your retirement account: stay the hell away.

Scientology can and has done some remarkable things for individuals but the organization has become totally corrupt.

They need to be closed down.

[Phil]

@Someone here

What do you mean? What’s corrupt about it? 

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

What do you mean? What’s corrupt about it? 

According to the Scientology teachings, every soul on the planet is on the slippery threshold of an unending hellish existence unless they’re spiritually rehabilitated by the Church of Scientology. You see ? Classic cult dynamic. 

What’s wrong with the Church is that, as far as anyone can tell, after 70 years of rehabilitation every single soul is still on the threashold and it’s as slippery as ever.

Here's the Wikipedia page on Scientology’s controversies:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_controversies

[Phil]

@Someone here

Interesting but I still don’t see what the corruption is. Like, for all you know that might be true as in perfectly accurate of direct experience.