Autism & Parents

[Loop]

Currently I am experiencing a lot of anger. 
Gonna express a lot of non-sense. 

 

I haven’t really talk to anyone about this before really, when I was a teenager my parents told me I was diagnosed with autism really early on as a child. This just really pissed me off of many different reasons, why are you telling me this now? Why tell me at all… Which my father thought they never should have, his reason why was spot on, I would beat myself up about it, and now here we are over a decade later. I don’t like talking about because it feels like I loose all power and now I am the one diagnosed with a mental disorder, this is just the way it was framed to me, implicitly. Why the fuck did they keep it a secret from me? I probably would have come to terms with it better if I knew when I was in elementary school… 

 

So my mother tells me “I had to push for that diagnoses” which makes me feel, Oh you just wanted a child who was disabled so you could play the role you always wanted to play as the mother with the special children, for fuck sakes. This sends me flying into a rage, I feel like a worthless piece of shit who doesn’t know how to take care of himself because my mother always flying around me trying to keep all the bad people out. Here is the thing, SHE IS THE ONE AFRAID OF PEOPLE, she taught me all the time to be afraid of people, that everyone is out to get you, so I didn’t make many friends, and now you have the audacity to get me diagnosed with autism, fucking hell. 
 

Ahhhhh, just fucking sit down stop blaming people. Take responsibility for your own thoughts.
 

I feel like a goddam idiot. 

[Loop]

I am experiencing a lot of unworthiness, powerlessness, from believing thoughts about myself.
I got bullied in school a lot, at one point getting kicked in the nuts everyday no exaggeration by a group of people that I used to call my friends, eventually they said they didn’t want to hang out with me anymore and I had no friends for a long time. I just let people steamroller over top of me. How did I end up like this, with so much repressed rage. So much repressed energy. 
 

Experiencing shame, the stem of all the blame.
I can’t seem to escape, because I am looking the wrong way, into feeling just stay. 

 

[Loop]

I keep blaming how I was raised instead of just taking responsibility for my own thought, it is quite ridiculous… 

[Loop]

Why did I make this thread, it was kind of like exposing myself. I have been struggling with thoughts repeating over and over. This is me, trying to expose what I keep repressing. If I have it written down here I can’t keep avoiding it. 
 

I can’t break the cycle of conditioning that runs through my family without exposing myself. There is a lot of crap I gotta expose so it can let go of me. This is a big one, subtle repressed thoughts. 
 

I wish I could talk to my family about these kinds of things but, it doesn’t help, everyone is in the cycle of blaming, and being angery. Even my grandma comes to me to talk to me about how insane my mothers rage is sometimes… It will get better,  it will, I am the Will. The more I remain, the more those around me do. 

[Mandy]

🤗 

 

Funny how it seems there are different perspectives but really we're all in it together. I have a son diagnosed with autism, was diagnosed at age 3, he's nearly 10 now. I would truly love to know how would you suggest I talk to him about it? How do you wish things were handled for you? 

 

Everything we live, everything that causes us to ask serves for the purpose of expansion. What does this clarify for you, what do you want? It might seem like we can look back but even when we do we're always moving forward. How do you want things to be? 

[Loop]

10 hours ago, Mandy said:

🤗

🤗 Hi Mandy

 

10 hours ago, Mandy said:

Funny how it seems there are different perspectives but really we're all in it together.

I feel like that is the point I am trying to get to, just keep believing non-sense about separation. But like what am I doing then? Trying to reach a perspective is not the same as just feeling what is actually true.  
 

10 hours ago, Mandy said:

I have a son diagnosed with autism, was diagnosed at age 3, he's nearly 10 now. 

I am pretty sure that is also the age I was diagnosed. So you are a mom and have a autistic son, how would you explain what that is like to someone else? Or if you could explain what it’s like to your son, how would you? 
 

10 hours ago, Mandy said:

I would truly love to know how would you suggest I talk to him about it? How do you wish things were handled for you? 

Well I would say the number one thing is to not let it be framed as a problem. My mom is super attached to her disabled victim identity, it disgusted me growing up, I wanted anything but to be like that… So when she tells me about it, it came from that framing. It’s hard, perhaps help is needed. So how do you explain that help could be needed without it being framed as a problem. 😕

Well I can tell you one thing for sure, don’t put a harness with a leash on it and walk your child around like a dog… Unfortunately one of my earliest memories… Well I don’t know, maybe that is needed? I hope not. Feels like prison before I even knew about prisons. 

 

If I am being completely honest I don’t really know, I am just expressing. 
 

10 hours ago, Mandy said:

Everything we live, everything that causes us to ask serves for the purpose of expansion. What does this clarify for you, what do you want? It might seem like we can look back but even when we do we're always moving forward. How do you want things to be? 

I want my family to gain more emotional intelligence, I know I talk a lot about my mother, but everyone needs it. I don’t talk about my father very much because he is so passive, too passive. But I guess that is just the other end of the pole from my mom’s assertiveness. I don’t want to move out like my sister did, I want to leave with them knowing I love them, and have these cycles come to and end, or grow into something more conscious. 
 

I want to be so grounded in Unconditional Happiness that can I just sit there and laugh all day, or cry, or whatever, ands it’s all good. To not feel powerless to the thoughts about being autistic, or any thought. To create harmony from being the Harmony that already is.  

[Mandy]

3 minutes ago, Loop said:

I am pretty sure that is also the age I was diagnosed. So you are a mom and have a autistic son, how would you explain what that is like to someone else? Or if you could explain what it’s like to your son, how would you?  

If you could be your own parent after that diagnosis, and go back and do things how you wish they were done, what would you do? Would you have told yourself about the diagnosis younger, or not at all, and how would you have explained it? Did you receive any services or assistance in school and was that helpful or no? No obligation to answer, I'm just really curious. 

 

6 minutes ago, Loop said:

Well I would say the number one thing is to not let it be framed as a problem.  

❤️

7 minutes ago, Loop said:

To not feel powerless to the thoughts about being autistic, or any thought. To create harmony from being the Harmony that already is.  

I do believe that autism is a superpower. From what I've seen autistic people are much less encumbered by what others are thinking, nor are they trying to be anything for anybody and they are direct and honest. I find that so refreshing. They know what they love and want to be doing, and they are powerfully focused on it. 

12 minutes ago, Loop said:

Well I would say the number one thing is to not let it be framed as a problem. My mom is super attached to her disabled victim identity, it disgusted me growing up, I wanted anything but to be like that… So when she tells me about it, it came from that framing. It’s hard, perhaps help is needed. So how do you explain that help could be needed without it being framed as a problem. 😕

I think that if we play to our strengths and stick with what we love, we blow through our weaknesses. I think that in the attempt to "combat" here is only focus on weaknesses. 

 

You ARE already empowered. It may be your own focus on weaknesses that isn't resonating? 

[Eothasian]

I wouldn't beat myself up about it. Diagnoses don't really amount to much ontologically. 

It says more about the therapist than about you most of the time.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Eothasian

[Phil]

There might be clarity, relief & insight in considering the generational cycle within creation, or, why the bullies and mom acted as they did. Was it from their own place of hurt & shame, which all traces back to ignore-ance of feeling / ignorance of who they really are, of Self?  Can the innocent of their ignore-ance be seen? Can that they suffered greatly in their ignore-ance be seen?

 

Can the importance, significance, courage & relevance of dispelling ignorance, and therein breaking the cycle, be seen? In doing so, shame can no longer be. 

 

It might even be seen, in the adaptation of creation or vibrational appearance, proceeding in the prevailing collective ignorance of that which is appearing… of the stream of consciousness as finite minds… the inevitability of autism, and again, the bravery in breaking the cycles. The importance of how precisely change occurs. (5:04)

 

Perhaps even a renaissance of resonance (synonymous with vibration & fullness).

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/creator-creating-creation-contemplation

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/aligning-thought-with-feeling

 

Maybe even an apocalypse or two. 

Maybe billions. 

[Loop]

22 hours ago, Mandy said:

If you could be your own parent after that diagnosis, and go back and do things how you wish they were done, what would you do? Would you have told yourself about the diagnosis younger, or not at all, and how would you have explained it? Did you receive any services or assistance in school and was that helpful or no? No obligation to answer, I'm just really curious. 

I can see how this was a really difficult task for my parents, they had their own disagreement about it. This kinda hit me in the face because I was never ask that before. It is always like, “You don’t understand what it’s like to be a parent” which yeah I don’t, but I would like to have a conversation with them rather then just get the hand in my face… 

 

It really depends on how my child was doing, perhaps they thought it was time for me to know because I was struggling in Jr.High, had no friends really after the group that weren’t really my friends in the first place stoped being around me. It didn’t really help with that, me knowing about it, well because like my father said to me about the situation later, he was worried I would beat myself up more, and yes that is kinda what happened. I was already not in a very good place so them telling me about autism just made me feel like, oh I have another thing to be sad and upset about now. 
 

I was told I had ADHD when I was pretty young and it wasn’t something I ever was disturb by, so when by parents told me about autism like it is some kind of secret & combined with the kids at school using “Autistic” as a derogatory term, well it really didn’t sit well with me. The being put in harness as a kid thing really disturbs me, made/ makes me feel pretty worthless as a memory later on. A lot of these things combined, it is quite overwhelming to someone in their teenage years. 
 

Telling them well they are younger, and risk them identifying with the diagnoses/ worrying about it.

Telling them well they are older, and risk them not getting help they could need/ not realizing they need. 
 

I would say go for telling them well they are younger, it really didn’t feel good to me in Jr.High when my parents told me, it felt like a terrible secret they kept from me for a long time because they thought I was incapable of understanding. But then again that could just be because of they way it was framed to me implicitly as a issue that needs to be always worked on…

 

Maybe I was told about some strengths autistic people have, but I never really had someone help me find them in myself, so I was always focused on weakness about it… I just don’t see the strengths…  ADHD, Autistic, Autoimmune Disorders, Learning disabilities, and more stuff in my medical records, they don’t really know shit, all these labels…

 

I did receive a lot of support, but it usually made me feel more isolated from the rest of the kids my age, they would see me leave the room and go with the “Special teacher”, but it was mostly just to do with English, which I believe my ability to articulate myself is way better then it would have been, but it took me away from building real relationships with the other kids. What they really needed was someone who could help me find my strengths and focus on that…

 

Does your son know about his diagnoses? What have your thoughts been about when or how to tell him? 

 

23 hours ago, Mandy said:

I do believe that autism is a superpower. From what I've seen autistic people are much less encumbered by what others are thinking, nor are they trying to be anything for anybody and they are direct and honest. I find that so refreshing. They know what they love and want to be doing, and they are powerfully focused on it. 

Yeah unfortunately that was video games for me for a long time, I don’t really play them anymore, kinda want to again though because my sister got a computer now so I could play online with her, I don’t really get to talk to her much any more, and my brothers. 
 

I find video games became like an escape from the insanity of mainly the rage of my mother, like as an autistic child I really just needed someone to help me with emotional intelligence, nobody ever ever ever once helped me with that. The school system is fucked up, they only care about hard sciences and english. Yeah fucking learning to spell ain’t gonna teach me how to interact with another person… 

 

I love music more then anything really, I do feel very gifted in it, but it was shut down early as a kid in elementary school my mother would discourage me from pursuing it because “It doesn’t make you money”, I still harbour a deep rage about this. I feel I could have been developing my musical skill way earlier, but not my mom wanted me so badly to go into engineering because I am her autistic son who is apparently so good at math… fucking hell… I dropped out of engineering in the second year, it started falling apart because I realized I was just listening to my mom and not my heart.  
 

Was I trying to be someone for my mom? Maybe. I feels like I was just listening to her because when you are younger your parents are the ones who know how this cruel world works haha, but no. I hope my mom gets out of the framing that the world is a terrible place some day… 

 

23 hours ago, Mandy said:

I think that if we play to our strengths and stick with what we love, we blow through our weaknesses. I think that in the attempt to "combat" here is only focus on weaknesses. 

23 hours ago, Mandy said:

You ARE already empowered. It may be your own focus on weaknesses that isn't resonating? 

Nice song, it does point to what is going on here in a few different ways. Thanks.

Yeah I feel way way too focused on weakness, trying to switch it around I am met with a grumpy ol’ troll telling me I am worthless. 

 

 

[Loop]

23 hours ago, Eothasian said:

I wouldn't beat myself up about it. Diagnoses don't really amount to much ontologically. 

It says more about the therapist than about you most of the time.

Here is the thing, my mom tell me about how she had to push for a diagnoses because the doctors wouldn’t do it, so she thought there was something wrong with me, then convinced a doctor…  

[Loop]

21 hours ago, Phil said:

There might be clarity, relief & insight in considering the generational cycle within creation, or, why the bullies and mom acted as they did. Was it from their own place of hurt & shame, which all traces back to ignore-ance of feeling / ignorance of who they really are, of Self?  Can the innocent of their ignore-ance be seen? Can that they suffered greatly in their ignore-ance be seen?

Yeah I do find relief in considering the generation cycle, but then other times it feel overwhelming, like I am being controlled by all of unconsciousness of the past generations. The cycles just keep going because nobody wants to feel their own feelings. I do see the innocents of the ignorance, I feel sad because I want it to end for them but it feels inevitable that most or all of them won’t ever even get a glimpse of Silence again. 
 

21 hours ago, Phil said:

Can the importance, significance, courage & relevance of dispelling ignorance, and therein breaking the cycle, be seen? In doing so, shame can no longer be. 

Hmm, I feel there is something her but it isn’t clicking. Like the anger transforming into bravery through the proper expression of the shame. 
 

I defiantly see the importance, significance & relevance. It just feels so overwhelming.

 

21 hours ago, Phil said:

It might even be seen, in the adaptation of creation or vibrational appearance, proceeding in the prevailing collective ignorance of that which is appearing… of the stream of consciousness as finite minds… the inevitability of autism, and again, the bravery in breaking the cycles. The importance of how precisely change occurs. (5:04)

Yeah, just trying to release these thought loops. I find talking to people about it easier then writing to myself at the moment, I have been pretending & avoiding it too much. I want Wonder to roam free, not be so caught up in beliefs about a past. 
 

21 hours ago, Phil said:

Perhaps even a renaissance of resonance (synonymous with vibration & fullness).

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/creator-creating-creation-contemplation

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/aligning-thought-with-feeling

 

Maybe even an apocalypse or two. 

Maybe billions. 

Sometimes I feel like a nuke goes off in my body in the shape of a heart and it annihilates everything, can be kinda terrifying.

 

Renaissance of resonance haha. 
 

I find it hard to write to myself right now, I find it hard to do anything other then sit and meditate. 

 

[Phil]

13 minutes ago, Loop said:

Yeah I do find relief in considering the generation cycle, but then other times it feel overwhelming, like I am being controlled by all of unconsciousness of the past generations. The cycles just keep going because nobody wants to feel their own feelings. I do see the innocents of the ignorance, I feel sad because I want it to end for them but it feels inevitable that most or all of them won’t ever even get a glimpse of Silence again. 

This is where / when is becomes most relevant & significant to notice the guidance of overwhelment, and to recognize the discord of the view, and be careful not to attribute the discord to assertion. It is the bravest & most respectable of paths if you will. 

13 minutes ago, Loop said:

Hmm, I feel there is something her but it isn’t clicking. Like the anger transforming into bravery through the proper expression of the shame. 

Shame doesn’t exist, and is recreated only in the finite mind. This is ultimately what is ‘broken’ in terms of breaking the cycle. Only shame perpetuates the cycle. 

13 minutes ago, Loop said:

I defiantly see the importance, significance & relevance. It just feels so overwhelming.

So to speak, keep going, you’re almost there. Notice more and more the ‘it’ of ‘it feels overwhelming’ is the view, the interpretation. The alternative is understanding, empowerment, and inherently therein, forgiveness / compassion. 

13 minutes ago, Loop said:

Yeah, just trying to release these thought loops. I find talking to people about it easier then writing to myself at the moment, I have been pretending & avoiding it too much. I want Wonder to roam free, not be so caught up in beliefs about a past. 

Thought loops are perpetuated only via non-inspection & non-recognition of the ‘separate self’ of thoughts, or, the recognition that you are not ‘in’, and could not possibly be ‘in’, thoughts. 

13 minutes ago, Loop said:

Sometimes I feel like a nuke goes off in my body in the shape of a heart and it annihilates everything, can be kinda terrifying.

 

Renaissance of resonance haha. 
 

I find it hard to write to myself right now, I find it hard to do anything other then sit and meditate. 

 

‘Writing to myself’ is an example of a thought loop, in which it seems that thought, ‘myself’, actually is yourself. 

Then there is the matter of not shooting the messenger. 🫤

[Loop]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

This is where / when is becomes most relevant & significant to notice the guidance of overwhelment, and to recognize the discord of the view, and be careful not to attribute the discord to assertion. It is the bravest & most respectable of paths if you will. 

Hmm, there was a massive shift in my sacrum and hip bones when I framed overwhelment as guidance, rather then something that was happening to someone. 
 

Sometimes I feel afraid of assertiveness, like what if I accidentally be too assertive and not notice what someone is saying to me. You should try to understand someone else before trying to get them to understand you. Right. 
 

3 hours ago, Phil said:

Shame doesn’t exist, and is recreated only in the finite mind. This is ultimately what is ‘broken’ in terms of breaking the cycle. Only shame perpetuates the cycle. 

Only silence. 
 

No more Loop.
 

3 hours ago, Phil said:

So to speak, keep going, you’re almost there. Notice more and more the ‘it’ of ‘it feels overwhelming’ is the view, the interpretation. The alternative is understanding, empowerment, and inherently therein, forgiveness / compassion. 

huh, it’s like my entire body tries to pull/ push away from ‘it’ rather then look at ‘it’. Creating this discord in the structure. 
 

There is no thing that makes choices. There is nothing that directs attention.

 

The perpetuating of the shame is a belief about there being a me that made choices, or ever will make choices. 
 

3 hours ago, Phil said:

Thought loops are perpetuated only via non-inspection & non-recognition of the ‘separate self’ of thoughts, or, the recognition that you are not ‘in’, and could not possibly be ‘in’, thoughts. 

🙏🏼 Thank you

 

3 hours ago, Phil said:

‘Writing to myself’ is an example of a thought loop, in which it seems that thought, ‘myself’, actually is yourself. 

Then there is the matter of not shooting the messenger. 🫤

I can feel that in the back of my head somewhere, it is like it isn’t my head so it drops and my neck can actually properly balance the skull. 
 

Where is the messenger?

 

[Phil]

9 minutes ago, Loop said:

Hmm, there was a massive shift in my sacrum and hip bones when I framed overwhelment as guidance, rather then something that was happening to someone. 
 

Sometimes I feel afraid of assertiveness, like what if I accidentally be too assertive and not notice what someone is saying to me. You should try to understand someone else before trying to get them to understand you. Right

Excellent!

Now do the same with fear. Fear is an emotion - guidance. There is not a separate self which is afraid. The concept is the overlooking of the emotion felt. 

 

Let go of being understood, and or of trying to get anyone to understand you. Simply enjoy experience (communicating, etc). Sometimes there seems to be understanding, sometimes there seems there is not understanding. If that can be understood, and that is recognized to be what is, then there is peace. There can always be continued communication.

 

11 minutes ago, Loop said:

Only silence. 
 

No more Loop.

Exactly! 🙂

 

11 minutes ago, Loop said:

🙏🏼 Thank you

🙏 

12 minutes ago, Loop said:

I can feel that in the back of my head somewhere, it is like it isn’t my head so it drops and my neck can actually properly balance the skull. 
 

Where is the messenger?

Not absolutely sure, but I’ve heard that being-ness is said to more fundamentally appear as vibrational activity as the lower back region of the head, with the activity of separate subjects and objects thinking appearing more in the top front or frontal lobes. Who knows though. 

 

Is there a Messenger really? Or is there just apparent phenomenon pointing back, to that which appears as phenomenon, a.k.a. the message.

[Loop]

@Mandy

 

Didn’t mean to trauma dump on ya, just processing old trash I found in the attic. I appreciated what you have said so far, helped me find more clarity about what was going on.

 

I talk to my mom a for bit about when the best time to tell a kid about a diagnoses could be, I still don’t really know it is a complicated situation, there is more arising compassion for the situation now then there was the other day. 

 

On 8/14/2022 at 1:47 PM, Phil said:

Excellent!

Now do the same with fear. Fear is an emotion - guidance. There is not a separate self which is afraid. The concept is the overlooking of the emotion felt. 

 

Let go of being understood, and or of trying to get anyone to understand you. Simply enjoy experience (communicating, etc). Sometimes there seems to be understanding, sometimes there seems there is not understanding. If that can be understood, and that is recognized to be what is, then there is peace. There can always be continued communication.

 

Is shame an emotion? Just a construct of the finite mind?

It feels like I feel shame for feeling shame, aha 🙃

Mind so loud right now, scrambling to grab at something to do, some path to follow, but there isn’t one/ it is just Feeling, not graspable. It wants to understand, but ununderstand is understanding in this case in a sense, letting go of the mind/ the idea of separation.

 

Yeah there doesn’t have to be understanding, clinging to it is to reside in ignorance. 
 

There have been exponentially more and more shifts in my spine, and entire structure over the past few months.
 

On 8/14/2022 at 1:47 PM, Phil said:

Not absolutely sure, but I’ve heard that being-ness is said to more fundamentally appear as vibrational activity as the lower back region of the head, with the activity of separate subjects and objects thinking appearing more in the top front or frontal lobes. Who knows though. 

 

Is there a Messenger really? Or is there just apparent phenomenon pointing back, to that which appears as phenomenon, a.k.a. the message.

I find that very fascinating and relates to the vegas nerve exercises I do, the main exercises have to do with realigning the top vertebra of the spine, right at the back of the head where it connects to the neck. Apparently the top vertebra are aligned more based off what someone is thinking about then by what is going on in the environment. 
 

 
 

 

 

[Phil]

@Loop

Shame is usually the result of being around someone who employs emotional manipulation to feel better about themself.

 

If you did something however which is resulting in the feeling of shame, you can do something about it. You can sincerely apologize and or do what you can to make it ‘right’ and thus be free of the shame. 

 

If you ‘inherited’ the shame, you can also do something about it. You can see & realize the emotional manipulation of someone around you, or maybe that was around you like in your childhood. You can ‘connect the dots’.

 

The more understanding & compassion you realize & feel, the more you realize the shame isn’t actually coming from you, nor actually about you at all. That it didn’t originate with you. That you were the victim in the situation.

 

If it came from someone else, you would be able to see their underlying self judgement, and connect the dots from that discord or suffering … to their attempt to feel ‘good’, or ‘higher’, by making someone else feel ‘bad’ or ‘lower’.

You would stand realize relief & clarity as you realize the specifics used with regard to the manipulation.

 

Example of specifics might be for how you look, think, or act, such as fat shaming, intelligence shaming, inclusivity shaming or happiness shaming.

 

What someone believes they are lacking in but doesn’t address or inspect, they unknowingly project onto someone else who they see as having.

 

A parent who didn’t graduate high school for example, might make shaming & disparaging comments to their own child who expresses an intention to go to college, and might even make  attempts to thwart college from happening. 

 

A parent who believes they are inferior and feels excluded, might make shaming comments to their child they see as superior to them in their inclusivity, and might even make attempts to exclude them. 

 

A parent with an eating disorder might make shaming comments their child who exercises or maintains a healthy diet, and might make attempts to undermine their choices & behaviors. 

 

A parent with low self esteem might make shaming comments to a child who exemplifies confidence, and attempt to break their confidence by pointing out “flaws”. 

 

A parent who harbors guilt & shame for things they’ve done but never addressed, might making shameful comments to a child with a ‘clean’ conscience, attempting to shed a darkness on the things of light the child does, in terms of general selflessness & kindness. 

[Mandy]

14 hours ago, Loop said:

@Mandy

 

Didn’t mean to trauma dump on ya, just processing old trash I found in the attic. I appreciated what you have said so far, helped me find more clarity about what was going on.

 

❤️ No worries at all, and sorry for not responding sooner, I've been traveling and wanted to wait until I could properly reply to you. 

On 8/14/2022 at 8:07 AM, Loop said:

I can see how this was a really difficult task for my parents, they had their own disagreement about it. This kinda hit me in the face because I was never ask that before. It is always like, “You don’t understand what it’s like to be a parent” which yeah I don’t, but I would like to have a conversation with them rather then just get the hand in my face… 

Communication is super important. We often assume that people just are _____, feel _______ and believe ______ but usually when we actually talk and really listen to other perspectives we see where we may have assumed or misunderstood. The discord is always pointing out where we misunderstand, and asking for a conversation and looking for the way to move forward together is always a better step than assuming that we are solely the problem, or they solely are the problem. We are all growing together.  

 

On 8/14/2022 at 8:07 AM, Loop said:

I was told I had ADHD when I was pretty young and it wasn’t something I ever was disturb by, so when by parents told me about autism like it is some kind of secret & combined with the kids at school using “Autistic” as a derogatory term, well it really didn’t sit well with me. The being put in harness as a kid thing really disturbs me, made/ makes me feel pretty worthless as a memory later on. A lot of these things combined, it is quite overwhelming to someone in their teenage years.

The diagnosis and labeling thing is NOT ideal. The way I see it, is that it's a spectrum that we all fall on somewhere. It's impossible to be autistic or to not be autistic, but because of my son's diagnosis, he is allowed to type his work sometimes instead of handwrite, and he gets extra help with social skills. I had a friend in highschool that was autistic. I didn't know for sure until after we graduated and I felt like I would have understood him so much better had I known. I remember that he had really messy handwriting and I just loved it. It had so much personality, and a boldness to it, and he HATED that I said that, he couldn't see that I was honestly appreciating it, not making fun of him. Now that I have a son who struggles with writing and hates it, I see that years of being yelled at about your handwriting would make you feel that way. Anytime someone says "you have a flaw" it isn't going to resonate. The sad thing is when we believe for so long that we do have a flaw that someone points out the perfection in it and we can't see that either, all we hear is "you have a flaw". 

 

As for the harness leashes, don't hate me but I did have one of those for when my son was very young. It was a little lion backpack harness with a strap you could attach or detach. I bought it because he was always wandering off, and because it made traveling the most nerve wracking thing ever, especially since we like nature and rocky, cliff like areas. It was either that or just stay home or keep him in my arms or the stroller. With that I could give him freedom to explore and move and take him more places, but without risking his life. In practice it didn't even work that well and I hardly ever used it. 

 

It's likely you remember the leash because you were at a new place you'd never been before, the leash was new to you and so it also sticks out in your memory. The worthless feeling is guidance NOW letting you know that you are not seeing that memory the way Source sees it. Did you talk to your mom about it, and ask her why or when she used it? 

 

On 8/14/2022 at 8:07 AM, Loop said:

Telling them well they are younger, and risk them identifying with the diagnoses/ worrying about it.

Telling them well they are older, and risk them not getting help they could need/ not realizing they need. 
 

I would say go for telling them well they are younger, it really didn’t feel good to me in Jr.High when my parents told me, it felt like a terrible secret they kept from me for a long time because they thought I was incapable of understanding. But then again that could just be because of they way it was framed to me implicitly as a issue that needs to be always worked on…

 

Maybe I was told about some strengths autistic people have, but I never really had someone help me find them in myself, so I was always focused on weakness about it… I just don’t see the strengths…  ADHD, Autistic, Autoimmune Disorders, Learning disabilities, and more stuff in my medical records, they don’t really know shit, all these labels…

When I was 11 or something like that I developed OCD. I had no idea what it was. I just knew I was really really suffering and that I was crazy and thinking that felt like more suffering. I knew that my parents didn't believe in psychiatric help or going to doctor unless you were at death's door and telling them I needed help seemed too shameful. Asides from obsessive handwashing, I also felt the compulsion to keep my compulsion secret (not realizing it was more compulsion.) I remember the turning point so well. My best friend who was not allowed to watch tv and instead read constantly told me about a book she just read called "Kissing Doorknobs" about a girl suffering with OCD. She just described the plot and summarized it for me. I had never before heard the term OCD. I never asked to borrow the book, I never read the book. I never said "oh I have that too". But understanding flooded me and in the realization that I had OCD I realized that there was nothing wrong with me, that this was a thing other people had and the most important thing that inexplicably followed that feeling of "not aloneness" was the understanding that I could totally just let these thoughts go. By the time I entered high school it was almost completely gone. That to me is the power of a diagnosis. I was never really diagnosed,  had no one tell me "you have OCD" but just knowing that OCD was a thing made me realize that it wasn't me. Identification is one HELL of an enigma. Language is powerful. 

 

NO ONE can diagnose you. It doesn't matter what you are told or not told. A diagnosis has the power to heal and transform, OR I can be identified with. On one hand I feel like my parents were neglectful. It got, really, really bad. I kind of vowed that my kids would get proper help for whatever came up with them. That there wouldn't be shame or hiding, or fear of medical professionals. On the other hand I feel like if they had been helicopter parents with it, that I may have identified with it, and not realized that could drop those thoughts and cut through the suffering. 

 

I know that from my son's paperwork that there is effort made to make things look more severe than they are to ensure that the child gets access to services. A lot of people I've run into do this. Don't pay attention to the paperwork. It was done out of love. 

 

All of it was done out of love. 😌 Some misunderstandings covering over that love, yes. Not all of them your own, not all of them others. 

On 8/14/2022 at 8:07 AM, Loop said:

Does your son know about his diagnoses? What have your thoughts been about when or how to tell him? 

He has been told before a few times, and had no reaction really. I went with the "tell him young, and don't make it into a big deal" route. I think that self understanding is key. And true self understanding is really just letting go of misunderstandings about self. If he has trouble socializing or feels misunderstood, I don't want him to think that there's something horribly wrong with him, I want him to use the diagnosis for self understanding like I did with the OCD label, to realize that it's not him, his faults, his failings at all. 

 

 

[Loop]

@Phil

 

A lot, or maybe even all of those I could find examples of. 
 

Shame  dumping…

 

I guess there is a lot of times I have just let people just do what they what even if I know it was wrong, even to the point where I some how took the blame for it. 
I think trauma and indecisiveness has a lot to do with each other, you kinda end up in a freeze state where it seems there are no options any more, or like run away.

 

I feel completely defeated, feel kinda strange though, like I don’t see that as a bad thing sometimes. There is a kind of relief in just allowing myself to be defeated, give up on the finite world to abide to pure awareness. The end of the loops is Pure Happiness, direct experience.  
 

There is a lot, hurt looking the wrong way for healing, looking to find something to point to and say “That is the issue!”. All that does is make myself go for a loop in between blaming myself and something/ someone else… 

 

In a sense I feel I am being bullied into submission, by my own mind. Why does it feel like I can’t just stop it?  
In another sense I feel the tug of wonder pulling me into a deeper period of practice, I just need to commit myself. 
 

I am experiencing anger toward apathetic feelings, the anger wants to pull the fearful part of myself out of its shell. When desires are not alined, it feels like there are parts of myself. 

 

[Loop]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:06 AM, Mandy said:

❤️ No worries at all, and sorry for not responding sooner, I've been traveling and wanted to wait until I could properly reply to you. 

I hope your travels are going well ☺️
 

On 8/17/2022 at 9:06 AM, Mandy said:

Communication is super important. We often assume that people just are _____, feel _______ and believe ______ but usually when we actually talk and really listen to other perspectives we see where we may have assumed or misunderstood. The discord is always pointing out where we misunderstand, and asking for a conversation and looking for the way to move forward together is always a better step than assuming that we are solely the problem, or they solely are the problem. We are all growing together.  

That is a good point, more reason to drop the thoughts, if the fact that it is thought wasn’t enough for me 🙃. Yeah growing together is what I want to see in my family, it is like a ping pong table of blame though. Lately it has been ok, it just festers beneath the surface for whenever something goes ‘wrong’. 
 

On 8/17/2022 at 9:06 AM, Mandy said:

The diagnosis and labeling thing is NOT ideal. The way I see it, is that it's a spectrum that we all fall on somewhere. It's impossible to be autistic or to not be autistic, but because of my son's diagnosis, he is allowed to type his work sometimes instead of handwrite, and he gets extra help with social skills. I had a friend in highschool that was autistic. I didn't know for sure until after we graduated and I felt like I would have understood him so much better had I known. I remember that he had really messy handwriting and I just loved it. It had so much personality, and a boldness to it, and he HATED that I said that, he couldn't see that I was honestly appreciating it, not making fun of him. Now that I have a son who struggles with writing and hates it, I see that years of being yelled at about your handwriting would make you feel that way. Anytime someone says "you have a flaw" it isn't going to resonate. The sad thing is when we believe for so long that we do have a flaw that someone points out the perfection in it and we can't see that either, all we hear is "you have a flaw". 

That is the big problem I have with my mom, she sees everything through the lens of mental disorders & identifying with them, seeing them in others. Everything she said to me got framed as a problem, as her tone of voice and face indicates. She seems to be in a state of constant chronic stress, everything is hard everything is an issue. It feels so defeating, I wish so much that I could help her, nothing see to help though. 
 

She needs more time to work on herself but she doesn’t have it, I guess that is the life of having kids isn’t it? She has so many things to deal with, but honestly I think she always bites of more then she can chew so she is always distracted… I feel I am experiencing anger and compassion at the same time, kinda strange but makes sense. Like there is this louder voice getting upset and a quite voice not trying to calm the other one down, but already is calm and is inviting the anger to look towards/ be with the calmness.
 

On 8/17/2022 at 9:06 AM, Mandy said:

As for the harness leashes, don't hate me but I did have one of those for when my son was very young. It was a little lion backpack harness with a strap you could attach or detach. I bought it because he was always wandering off, and because it made traveling the most nerve wracking thing ever, especially since we like nature and rocky, cliff like areas. It was either that or just stay home or keep him in my arms or the stroller. With that I could give him freedom to explore and move and take him more places, but without risking his life. In practice it didn't even work that well and I hardly ever used it. 

 

It's likely you remember the leash because you were at a new place you'd never been before, the leash was new to you and so it also sticks out in your memory. The worthless feeling is guidance NOW letting you know that you are not seeing that memory the way Source sees it. Did you talk to your mom about it, and ask her why or when she used it?

 

I have asked her about it a few times, she said it was because I would wonder off whenever she took me anywhere. I think I am just attached to being upset about the leash thing because to me it is symbolic of the helicopter parent mentality, I am sure it is something that can be useful.
 

Don’t worry I don’t hate ya for it, it is just more of a projection, me trying to find a way to express the anger I experience.
 

On 8/17/2022 at 9:06 AM, Mandy said:

When I was 11 or something like that I developed OCD. I had no idea what it was. I just knew I was really really suffering and that I was crazy and thinking that felt like more suffering. I knew that my parents didn't believe in psychiatric help or going to doctor unless you were at death's door and telling them I needed help seemed too shameful. Asides from obsessive handwashing, I also felt the compulsion to keep my compulsion secret (not realizing it was more compulsion.) I remember the turning point so well. My best friend who was not allowed to watch tv and instead read constantly told me about a book she just read called "Kissing Doorknobs" about a girl suffering with OCD. She just described the plot and summarized it for me. I had never before heard the term OCD. I never asked to borrow the book, I never read the book. I never said "oh I have that too". But understanding flooded me and in the realization that I had OCD I realized that there was nothing wrong with me, that this was a thing other people had and the most important thing that inexplicably followed that feeling of "not aloneness" was the understanding that I could totally just let these thoughts go. By the time I entered high school it was almost completely gone. That to me is the power of a diagnosis. I was never really diagnosed,  had no one tell me "you have OCD" but just knowing that OCD was a thing made me realize that it wasn't me. Identification is one HELL of an enigma. Language is powerful. 

Exactly! This is what I have been trying to express to my mom for a long time now. Identification is so sneaky and causes so much unnecessary suffering. 
 

The importance of focusing on who they actually are has not dawned on them. When you think you know who you are it is like banging your head on a wall over and over, even worse when you think you are someone with a incurable disorder…

You won’t look for help, you’ll give up rather then give In.
 

Thoughts… I gotta spend more time just Basking.
 

On 8/17/2022 at 9:06 AM, Mandy said:

NO ONE can diagnose you. It doesn't matter what you are told or not told. A diagnosis has the power to heal and transform, OR I can be identified with. On one hand I feel like my parents were neglectful. It got, really, really bad. I kind of vowed that my kids would get proper help for whatever came up with them. That there wouldn't be shame or hiding, or fear of medical professionals. On the other hand I feel like if they had been helicopter parents with it, that I may have identified with it, and not realized that could drop those thoughts and cut through the suffering. 

 

I know that from my son's paperwork that there is effort made to make things look more severe than they are to ensure that the child gets access to services. A lot of people I've run into do this. Don't pay attention to the paperwork. It was done out of love. 

 

All of it was done out of love. 😌 Some misunderstandings covering over that love, yes. Not all of them your own, not all of them others. 

Interesting view, it was pretty overwhelming for me. People always around me trying to “help me with my disorder”. Defiantly contributed to the identification.
 

Yeah I got access to all my old medical files and that was kinda overwhelming, don’t know why I read those. It is creepy, all these psychological assessments… that my mother would be reading to judge how she thinks I am……..

 

Ah, I know it was done out of love. I was talking to my brother telling him that our mom does love us, that she is just overwhelmed by all the stuff she is doing. He was questioning if she ever loved him. It’s hard especially when my sister left and said she never felt loved. It can be hard sometimes to look straight through the yelling to see that. 
 

On 8/17/2022 at 9:06 AM, Mandy said:

He has been told before a few times, and had no reaction really. I went with the "tell him young, and don't make it into a big deal" route. I think that self understanding is key. And true self understanding is really just letting go of misunderstandings about self. If he has trouble socializing or feels misunderstood, I don't want him to think that there's something horribly wrong with him, I want him to use the diagnosis for self understanding like I did with the OCD label, to realize that it's not him, his faults, his failings at all. 

That sounds like a good way to go about it. It is not him. 
 

Psychology is such a weird field haha. 
 

@Mandy @Phil  Sorry I took so long to respond, there is a lot of processing going on, it didn’t feel like I had anything to say for awhile.