Frustration with women... why do I feel this way?, how do I attract?

[Mandy]

9 hours ago, Omelette said:

My conundrum is that if I try to appreciate, it doesn't work because I am only trying to appreciate in hopes that reality will suddenly then align and I will get everything I want from relationships.

The appreciation is the reward within itself though. That's how that "now" thing comes in. One imagines the ideal image of the solved rubix cube, and notices the dissonance between the solved cube and the current state of the scrambled cube, but does not notice that focusing on this feels bad. He continues to think bad feeling thoughts, thinks thoughts about how dumb he is, thinks this is the reason why the cube is stills scrambled, and this results in leaving the cube on the shelf and staring at it angrily. Occasionally he will feel a bit better by blaming the company that sells Rubix cubes and curses the memory of Rubix himself. Then he goes back to thinking there is something wrong with him. When the cube is seen and accepted as it is, curiosity can come in. "What if the center pieces never move? Holy shit, the center pieces never move!" As long as a flawed, stupid, inept, unattractive or whatever else, self is thought to be the reason why things aren't how they are wanted to be there is no curiosity, no movement, no progression or more importantly, no enjoyment in the moment. 

 

Your center never moves. The "now", is the smack dab center of everything. This is the only real life, the only place you can live. 

 

9 hours ago, Omelette said:

I think appreciation is what I/people naturally do actually,

Yes!

9 hours ago, Omelette said:

I feel like a hungry child watching cooking shows all day, or rather, someone with a full kitchen of food, but lacks the ability to chew or swallow. As in, some other people question why I don't have a girlfriend, more relationships, sometimes are genuinely surprised and think I am lying to them, because seemingly I have the qualities that are desired. I also feel like why appreciate if I haven't gotten it and can't seem to get it? Just like I wouldn't appreciate being an Olympic swimmer since nothing in my life suggests I have the capacity to become one, even though the idea of being one sounds enjoyable, at least this is why it isn't making sense to me I think/

Because appreciation is your natural state, and because now is already the center, never moves and the now is already solved and never can be scrambled, in the focus there, everything else aligns with that. The fact that you wouldn't appreciate being an Olympic swimmer shows there there is no value inherent in getting the enviable end result achievement, but that it's all about the unique desires and challenges that fulfillment is born out of. 

 

The key is that the subject matters less than the appreciation. You're life is already the pinnacle of many desires. Modern medicine, heating and cooling, refrigeration, our transportation and food distribution systems are absolutely paradisiacal wonders if we went in a time machine back 300 years. When we get what we have wanted for so long, its both simultaneously wonderful and also not a big deal at all. None of the solutions or insights for creating these things came from someone being miserable, they came from curiosity and appreciation. 

9 hours ago, Omelette said:

I used to have female friends, not too many extremely close ones but fairly good friends who we would discuss deep topics about our lives. I stopped talking to all of them once this frustration first began and was more intense some time ago. Now, I feel more hesitant about making friendships with women. I think stuff like "They couldn't possibly understand me anyways", "They are just going to stop talking to me when they get bored", "They are just idiots using me for their own entertainment", "Can I have sex with them/ their friends?", and this obviously feels bad.

I think that's really helpful to notice, especially the timing of when those friendships stopped. Having female friends you aren't expecting anything from, having amazing conversations with them, that's appreciating women. If women appreciate you, and like being around you, aren't they using you for their own entertainment, and how is this a bad thing? Women exist for your pleasure. How is this a bad thing, or a thing that reflects badly on you? There's nothing wrong with being open to the possibility that a sexual relationship might follow. There's nothing wrong with you for thinking that. But if that's the ONLY thing you're open to getting from women, you aren't appreciating the friendship or any of the rest of it. Even after having the relationship of your dreams, friendship is still going to be one of the greatest pleasures in life for itself. 

9 hours ago, Omelette said:

I like the rubix cube analogy, I think it is accurate. But how does letting go of the need for resolution look? Does that mean I should continue staring at it, but just not with contempt (don't try to stop thinking about it, just move towards appreciation), or stop staring entirely (just disregard dating and relationships and do something else [I fear this will cause me to "fall behind" and miss out])? Or try to solve it instead (This is what I think I am doing now, I feel like I am solving it although it is fair to say I am just staring at it so to speak)?

It means having fun with the rubix cube, in it's unsolved state. This is where the metaphor becomes less ideal because I want to say just put your hands on the rubix cube, but... no metaphor is perfect. 😂

 

Maybe message those friends you don't speak to anymore. 

 

9 hours ago, Omelette said:

I have been writing and envisioning a future full of successful relationships and it feels good. I often think it is just wishful thinking though, this thought feels bad. Should I continue thinking of this future, and just try to drop thoughts that don't align like ones about wishful thinking, even if it seems like I won't receive said future?

I'd continue, but I'd also expand to doing it for other categories in life. Try one with less resistance and just have fun with the process. 

 

9 hours ago, Omelette said:

Thanks for bearing with me through this by the way. I don't know the right word for the feeling, humbled doesn't seem to capture it fully, but as I mentioned in my original post, there is an odd feeling that comes with complaining and whining about my dating life and women, and having a woman help me. 

❤️ My pleasure. Healing maybe?

9 hours ago, Omelette said:

I want the feeling of missing out and jealousy to go away and to be able to get more of what I want. I see the futility in the hatred and anger, and I see how I don't even believe all the associated angry thoughts, but there is a sense that if I don't fix it it will only get worse, and if I don't fix it there isn't really a point in continuing living my entire life with this weakness.

It's futile, but also not because the feeling of these and the fact that they don't feel good is guidance. 

 

The needing to fix thing is the same idea as solving the rubix cube. Yes, you want to solve the rubix cube, no there's nothing wrong with that, but yes you bought the rubix cube for the experience, for the fun, for the challenge, for the insights, for the love of the whole thing and that's exactly how it gets solved. There's nothing wrong with you. 

[Omelette]

On 8/21/2022 at 8:53 AM, Mandy said:

The appreciation is the reward within itself though. That's how that "now" thing comes in. One imagines the ideal image of the solved rubix cube, and notices the dissonance between the solved cube and the current state of the scrambled cube, but does not notice that focusing on this feels bad. He continues to think bad feeling thoughts, thinks thoughts about how dumb he is, thinks this is the reason why the cube is stills scrambled, and this results in leaving the cube on the shelf and staring at it angrily. Occasionally he will feel a bit better by blaming the company that sells Rubix cubes and curses the memory of Rubix himself. Then he goes back to thinking there is something wrong with him. When the cube is seen and accepted as it is, curiosity can come in. "What if the center pieces never move? Holy shit, the center pieces never move!" As long as a flawed, stupid, inept, unattractive or whatever else, self is thought to be the reason why things aren't how they are wanted to be there is no curiosity, no movement, no progression or more importantly, no enjoyment in the moment. 

 

Your center never moves. The "now", is the smack dab center of everything. This is the only real life, the only place you can live. 

 

Yes!

Because appreciation is your natural state, and because now is already the center, never moves and the now is already solved and never can be scrambled, in the focus there, everything else aligns with that. The fact that you wouldn't appreciate being an Olympic swimmer shows there there is no value inherent in getting the enviable end result achievement, but that it's all about the unique desires and challenges that fulfillment is born out of. 

 

The key is that the subject matters less than the appreciation. You're life is already the pinnacle of many desires. Modern medicine, heating and cooling, refrigeration, our transportation and food distribution systems are absolutely paradisiacal wonders if we went in a time machine back 300 years. When we get what we have wanted for so long, its both simultaneously wonderful and also not a big deal at all. None of the solutions or insights for creating these things came from someone being miserable, they came from curiosity and appreciation. 

I think that's really helpful to notice, especially the timing of when those friendships stopped. Having female friends you aren't expecting anything from, having amazing conversations with them, that's appreciating women. If women appreciate you, and like being around you, aren't they using you for their own entertainment, and how is this a bad thing? Women exist for your pleasure. How is this a bad thing, or a thing that reflects badly on you? There's nothing wrong with being open to the possibility that a sexual relationship might follow. There's nothing wrong with you for thinking that. But if that's the ONLY thing you're open to getting from women, you aren't appreciating the friendship or any of the rest of it. Even after having the relationship of your dreams, friendship is still going to be one of the greatest pleasures in life for itself. 

It means having fun with the rubix cube, in it's unsolved state. This is where the metaphor becomes less ideal because I want to say just put your hands on the rubix cube, but... no metaphor is perfect. 😂

 

Maybe message those friends you don't speak to anymore. 

 

I'd continue, but I'd also expand to doing it for other categories in life. Try one with less resistance and just have fun with the process. 

 

❤️ My pleasure. Healing maybe?

It's futile, but also not because the feeling of these and the fact that they don't feel good is guidance. 

 

The needing to fix thing is the same idea as solving the rubix cube. Yes, you want to solve the rubix cube, no there's nothing wrong with that, but yes you bought the rubix cube for the experience, for the fun, for the challenge, for the insights, for the love of the whole thing and that's exactly how it gets solved. There's nothing wrong with you. 

 

Sorry for the late reply, I find if I reply too quickly I find myself trying to mentally "figure it out" or rebut points and miss the overarching message.

 

I forget if it was a post from you or Phil on another thread, but I saw something along the lines of caring more about how you feel vs being right.

 

The thought comes up "Omelette, you need to get more confident/outgoing/fun. That is clearly what you are missing in relationships. Once I have this, maybe I won't be happy but I will be happier". This feels bad

 

Even though confidence is intangible I still see it as something to get, as if I am lacking it, and doing meditation, psychedelics, exercise, health will increase said confidence.

 

Before, I would do these actions, then get angry, because I felt lied to; "____ told me to do _____ and it is not working! Spirituality is a scam!"

 

I think I am starting to see that these thoughts are impersonal, and rather than listening to thoughts, listen to feeling. How I do this is literally just by caring more about feeling. If I have the thought "You are worthless" instead of thinking more and about how I am bad for having that thought, just feel the associated sensation... I am still having some trouble with the expression bit, but the thought "I am having trouble and don't know how to express" feels bad, so just shift to feeling? It seems like even thoughts of "I need to climb the emotional scale to get happy" cause discomfort, all it is is literally just feeling, all these words seem sort of non nonsensical after I spend some hours doing this.

 

I also have the thought " Spiritual teachers told me there is no "I", so who is even "suppressing" or "releasing"? My mind wants to look for an answer, but it doesn't feel good and I don't really care, I only want an answer so I feel better, so I can just feel instead and now I'm already no longer interested in this question before I even finished this paragraph lol.

 

Last night in bed I felt pretty bad and took a moment to just feel it all, and I realized how it was literally being created. Nothing at all happened that made me feel bad, nothing is different from a moment ago, it was just by choosing to believe thoughts and trying to use these thoughts to suppress my feelings.

 

With women its:

"Sex gives me value"

"Lack of attention from women signifies I am less-than or a bad person"

"I need to do something to get more attractive"

 

Associated with these are bad feelings... so who cares about the answer, let me just feel into the body, and like before it is gone aha. I notice the past few days that people are speaking to me for no reason more (in a good way, strangers starting conversations), and less anxiety around women. I try to just appreciate what I like about them, like I used to see a beautiful woman and think "Shes so attractive.... BUT, I will never be able to get intimate with her"... now I am just noticing it, how I am happy without putting conditions on it and these conditions make me unhappy, trying to just enjoy them as a person rather than simply for sex.

 

Does this seem to be the "right thing" to do given my posts? As I said, the thought of needing to be something more comes up. This is just a thought, and the feelings are to be explored rather than repress like I have been?

 

I wonder, for instance if there was a 5'2" man with poor hygiene, rotten teeth, very disrespectful and off putting, unemployed, no passion in life, no direction, etc., who had the same problems as me what should he do?

 

Not exactly sure how to communicate what I mean to say, but I spent so long on "self-improvement" to where I realize that all these qualities I deem undesirable I have mostly worked on; if I read the advice I was given years ago, I would say "Yeah right, how the hell are these positive thoughts going to help, I need to change" but I have spent so long trying to change without results that I have become more open to trying other methods.

 

Would there be "something to do" for someone in this situation? Like if someone had the same questions as me would the answer be everything you and Phil said + fix your teeth?

 

 

[Mandy]

16 hours ago, Omelette said:

Sorry for the late reply, I find if I reply too quickly I find myself trying to mentally "figure it out" or rebut points and miss the overarching message.

I appreciate that and think that's really wise. 🙂🙏

16 hours ago, Omelette said:

I forget if it was a post from you or Phil on another thread, but I saw something along the lines of caring more about how you feel vs being right.

 

The thought comes up "Omelette, you need to get more confident/outgoing/fun. That is clearly what you are missing in relationships. Once I have this, maybe I won't be happy but I will be happier". This feels bad

 

Even though confidence is intangible I still see it as something to get, as if I am lacking it, and doing meditation, psychedelics, exercise, health will increase said confidence.

The only time we lack confidence is when we are focused on the lack of confidence. It's inherent. You can't be a fun person. You can allow yourself to have fun. It's all in the moment. 

 

Meditation, psychedelics, exercise, and health all are moving toward feeling and away from thought and beliefs. However, it can be a belief that you must do these things "to get" confidence. In reality they are great ways to allow who you really are underneath the concepts to be known. It's not the concept of confidence we aspire to, it's the feeling associated with confidence that we want. That feeling is simply the lack of discordant thoughts beating up an illusory separate self for not being enough. Meditation is immersion in that Enoughness. Then, in a room full of people, that deep relaxation that you allowed in meditation is realized always to be present. Maybe at first it looks like remembering to really savor a deep belly breath every three minutes rather than sit there tensely. But like the tension, it's not something you get, it's something you let go of.

 

16 hours ago, Omelette said:

Before, I would do these actions, then get angry, because I felt lied to; "____ told me to do _____ and it is not working! Spirituality is a scam!"

 Discouragement feels pretty bad, and doubt is the next emotion up from it. It's natural to doubt what we pined our hopes on when we are moving up the scale, but if we want to feel better, we will need to let go of believing those thoughts about scams, etc. 

16 hours ago, Omelette said:

I think I am starting to see that these thoughts are impersonal, and rather than listening to thoughts, listen to feeling. How I do this is literally just by caring more about feeling. If I have the thought "You are worthless" instead of thinking more and about how I am bad for having that thought, just feel the associated sensation... I am still having some trouble with the expression bit, but the thought "I am having trouble and don't know how to express" feels bad, so just shift to feeling? It seems like even thoughts of "I need to climb the emotional scale to get happy" cause discomfort, all it is is literally just feeling, all these words seem sort of non nonsensical after I spend some hours doing this.

 

I also have the thought " Spiritual teachers told me there is no "I", so who is even "suppressing" or "releasing"? My mind wants to look for an answer, but it doesn't feel good and I don't really care, I only want an answer so I feel better, so I can just feel instead and now I'm already no longer interested in this question before I even finished this paragraph lol.

In expression there is no longer any shame or identification (discord). A lot of great songs are expression, they make art out of some pretty heavy stuff. In it it is transmuted, loved and accepted. This one for example. 

 

When you start out there will be identification, but just keep writing, or whatever means you're inspired to. Use the emotional scale, and ask yourself if the thoughts feels better or worse. Choose better feeling thoughts. Sometimes just letting out the worst sounding stuff feels so much better. 

 

"I wish I was special
You're so fuckin' special

But I'm a creep
I'm a weirdo
What the hell am I doin' here?
I don't belong here"

 

Doesn't sound very enlightened, does it? Doesn't sound like it feels better, but it's only the writer, the creator who is feeling. No one is judging. Tryin to sound enlightened is identification, judgement, feels bad. Let yourself go. Forget all the stuff anyone ever said and just feel into what you're expressing. 

 

16 hours ago, Omelette said:

Last night in bed I felt pretty bad and took a moment to just feel it all, and I realized how it was literally being created. Nothing at all happened that made me feel bad, nothing is different from a moment ago, it was just by choosing to believe thoughts and trying to use these thoughts to suppress my feelings.

👏🙏

16 hours ago, Omelette said:

Associated with these are bad feelings... so who cares about the answer, let me just feel into the body, and like before it is gone aha. I notice the past few days that people are speaking to me for no reason more (in a good way, strangers starting conversations), and less anxiety around women. I try to just appreciate what I like about them, like I used to see a beautiful woman and think "Shes so attractive.... BUT, I will never be able to get intimate with her"... now I am just noticing it, how I am happy without putting conditions on it and these conditions make me unhappy, trying to just enjoy them as a person rather than simply for sex.

 

Does this seem to be the "right thing" to do given my posts? As I said, the thought of needing to be something more comes up. This is just a thought, and the feelings are to be explored rather than repress like I have been?

100% sounds like you're on the right track. Are you enjoying yourself more? Ask that rather than trying to "be" more. 

16 hours ago, Omelette said:

I wonder, for instance if there was a 5'2" man with poor hygiene, rotten teeth, very disrespectful and off putting, unemployed, no passion in life, no direction, etc., who had the same problems as me what should he do?

 

Not exactly sure how to communicate what I mean to say, but I spent so long on "self-improvement" to where I realize that all these qualities I deem undesirable I have mostly worked on; if I read the advice I was given years ago, I would say "Yeah right, how the hell are these positive thoughts going to help, I need to change" but I have spent so long trying to change without results that I have become more open to trying other methods.

 

Would there be "something to do" for someone in this situation? Like if someone had the same questions as me would the answer be everything you and Phil said + fix your teeth?

Looks really don't matter because beauty and attraction isn't inherent in objects. The most notable thing about the theoretical man you describe is that he seems very unhappy. Maybe he wrongly believed from a very young age that his height was an issue, and so figured "what's the point of bothering with everything else?". People who are holding a ton of discordant beliefs about themselves don't care about how they care for themselves, why would they? Fix the inner and the outer follows. Someone who doesn't love themselves isn't going to spend the money and risk the discomfort of visiting a dentist or taking care of themselves.  

 

A lot of self help people will say "stop being a victim" and "just do it". In doing this and just going to the dentist, a lot of thoughts and "why I can't" might be dropped. But harshly speaking to oneself only is beneficial in the case that it results in dropping beliefs and thoughts about "why I can't."