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Four Noble Truths of the Buddha


Blessed2

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3 hours ago, Aware Wolf said:

The Four Noble Truths is literally words. It's a sutta. You can read it if you want. 

 

I almost didn't read this post. Because, well, I'm more into Advaita Vedanta (or E. Tolle, lol, love that guy😉) and I know almost nothing about Buddhism, except the ten ox herding pics.

 

Anyways, as someone that knows little about Buddhism I will say I was pretty confused about the replies as to what the 4  Noble Truths actually  meant. I read the earlier replies, shrugged my shoulders and moved on. 🙃 


However, with @Aware Wolf replies I did seek out more information on the net, because my curiousity was sparked. There is a lot more to understanding the 4 noble truths, it appears, then a few 1 liners, but it's probably like a lot of things you try to sum up in your own words, but sometimes it doesn't do it justice. I've been guilty of that when trying to explain something about Vedanta.

 

So, my point is that I can see both sides here. I can also see why @Aware Wolf was saying it should be described as close as possible to the original meaning. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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On 5/6/2022 at 10:39 AM, Blessed2 said:

In the forum guidelines, there is mentioned the four noble truths. They are listed as:

 

The truth of suffering.


The truth of the cause of suffering.


The truth of the end of suffering.

 

and


The truth of the path that frees us from suffering.

 

What does these truths mean? I'd like some commentary and explanation on each one. 

The truth of suffering is to realize that suffering exist only within you. It is up to you to make the next step. 


To put it metaphorically you are creating selfs within selfs as a means of dealing with suffering at the lost of misunderstandings who you really are.
 

For example, now that you have a better understand of the 4 noble truths. In which self is this knowledge going to sit? Know that there is another one right in front of the one who needs this knowledge and there can be infinite selfs in front of the right one. Is all a game you play with your self. 

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On 5/6/2022 at 9:26 PM, Aware Wolf said:

 

There's books on this and Wikipedia has an entry on this. I like Rahula Walpola's book What the Buddha Taught

 

Y'all are just making up your own sh*t.

 

That's fine. But it's not Buddhism's Four Noble Truths. It's your own interpretation of the Four Noble Truths. If you presented your own nondual, New Age view of the Four Noble Truths to a Buddhist monk or teacher -- they'd laugh and say, well not quite. 

 

If someone wants to know what Catholicism theorizes about the Trinity -- am I free to put down my view that everything is solipsistic, "Only my mind is known to exist, everything that exists first is manifested in my mind." ? 

 

I suppose -- but what I'd worry about is that it is a view from ignorance that isn't aware of what Catholicm believes about the Trinity. It can be like the blind leading the blind. This reads harsh, but did anyone actually read the original sutta in which Gautama expounded on the Four Noble Truths? If someone wants to bring up Jesus's Sermon on the Mount, and I've never read it, is this a problem? Can I say the real message of Sermon on the Mount is to beware of bears? Because bears are in mount(ains)? 

 

For example, it's known that the path leading to the cessation of suffering is the 8 fold Noble Path. This is in fact what the Buddha taught. I think good pedagogy can be looking at different perspectives. Is the Buddha's perspective here worthwhile? Why didn't anyone post it then? 

 

FFS

 

The responses above are more New Age interpretation of the Four Noble Truths that bears little resemblance to what the Buddha taught. If you even care, which you probably don't. In which case, just carry on. 

 

I'll take this as a post calling for discussion. This is my 02

 

The truth of suffering.

 

Suffering, dukkha, is also translated as dissatisfaction or stress. Dukkha exists. We are subject to birth, sickness, old age, and death. Despite vision boards promoting health, sickness and death comes. Despite giving alms, crystals, essential oils, and rituals to promote good health and karma -- sickness and death comes. 

 

The truth of the cause of suffering.

 

The Dharma is dependent origination. This means that what happens is due to causes and conditions and our suffering happens because of causes and conditions, of which a large part may be our desire, or craving. This stands up to science. It does not mean that a 5 year old getting cancer is due to karma  somehow attracting the sickness. It's not a rape victim's karma they got raped. It's not she manifested the rape by their clothes or playing the victim.  This is obnoxious and New Age claptrap. 

 

The truth of the end of suffering.

 

There is a way out of this suffering. It is nibbana or the cessation of craving. The four noble truths follows a medical diagnosis. It is no coincidence the Buddha was called the great physician. Here, the problem is defined (suffering). The cause is listed (causes and conditions). The diagnosis is that there is a way out (if there were no solution, there's no point in seeking a remedy).

 

The truth of the path that frees us from suffering.

 

 

The remedy is the 8-fold noble path: right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right stability of mind. 

 

This is a comprehensive path to upend one's life and change it to be a more whole human being. It includes wisdom, stability of mind, and ethics.:

 

Please remember that contemporary Western spiritual enlightenment mostly focuses on being in the now, a non-judging mindfulness, an end to the seeker, and a sense of oneness. You might think such teachings were deep and profound. Far, far from it. This is beginner’s stuff.

 

Shortly before his death, the Buddha expressed concern about the ‘closed fist’ of the teacher such as a teacher who holds to and promotes a single insight or two at the exclusion of a rich and diverse exploration.

 

In an enlightened way of life, no stone is left unturned. There is a bringing to light to bear equally on the inner and outer life, as mentioned in the Buddha’s discourse on mindfulness. It is the enquiry into ethics, desires, depths of meditation, money, action, livelihood, love, compassion, empathy, identity, conflict, emptiness, self and non-self, truth, reality and awakening.

 

What is an enlightened application to the personal and public life, for the individual and the institution, the worldly and the spiritual?

 

What is an enlightened application to the political, corporate, religious, cultural formations and information technology? The Now? Being? A Oneness Experience?

 

We only get silence from much of the current wave of spiritual, mindfulness, non-dual and yoga teachers.

 

What much of the West offers in the way of enlightenment belongs to the kindergarten of spirituality.

   -- Christopher Titmuss

 

Would you say I am enlightened?  Answer me and you will see the truth. 

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