The idea of gender is eating itself right now.

[Jonas Long]

The people who are phobic of transexuality are the ones who are proving and will prove that gender is nothing but a concept which can't be nailed down.  Every time you try to make some criteria of what makes a man or a woman in no uncertain terms, that criteria dissolves under the weight of itself.  Before the Olympics fiasco it was the genitals you are born with, end of story.  Now its the chromosomes you have regardless of genitalia.  Now people are transvestigating trans people and accusing them of double transitioning.  If they chase this oroborus tail long enough they will be the ones end up proving there is no such thing as gender beyond an idea of it. 

[Phil]

Yeah, totally. If played out beyond one’s lifetime, obviously there wouldn’t be males & females by any means or appearance anymore. Sometimes the gratitude comes easy. 😅 

[Reena]

Funny how transgender people helped us navigate gender. The irony of it. 

[Phil]

😂 🎯 

[Orb]

Imo people have the right to express themselves however they want. 

 

The "slippery slope" is with kids/pre-teens, that's my only issue with it. 

 

At 9-13 years old, how can one distinguish between a genuine desire to transition and being convinced into doing so? If that makes sense. Theres plenty of stories of people who transitioned at a young age and regretted it deeply. 

 

It's also an issue regarding technology. It'd be cool if there was more advanced ways to instantly transition gender seamlessly, without any side-effects. 

 

I think transitioning is something you should do once you reach 18 years old, it is a very serious decision to make and I dont think a child/teen is in the right space mentally to make a decision like that.

 

I did read that the "regret rate" for people who transition is 1% which is good to see, but nonetheless a lot of care and thought should be taken into account before transitioning.

[Reena]

2 minutes ago, Orb said:

Imo people have the right to express themselves however they want. 

 

The "slippery slope" is with kids/pre-teens, that's my only issue with it. 

 

At 9-13 years old, how can one distinguish between a genuine desire to transition and being convinced into doing so? If that makes sense. Theres plenty of stories of people who transitioned at a young age and regretted it deeply. 

 

It's also an issue regarding technology. It'd be cool if there was more advanced ways to instantly transition gender seamlessly, without any side-effects. 

 

I think transitioning is something you should do once you reach 18 years old, it is a very serious decision to make and I dont think a child/teen is in the right space mentally to make a decision like that.

 

I did read that the "regret rate" for people who transition is 1% which is good to see, but nonetheless a lot of care and thought should be taken into account before transitioning.

I'm surprised that the regret rate is 1%. Is it the right wing media constantly exaggerating the regret cases on TV? I don't know but I hear transition regret at an overwhelming rate. 

[Orb]

Just now, Reena said:

I'm surprised that the regret rate is 1%. Is it the right wing media constantly exaggerating the regret cases on TV? I don't know but I hear transition regret at an overwhelming rate. 

On the news / internet both sides are always blowing things out of proportion, I dont listen to that stuff anymore. 

 

The rate is pretty low, BUT when they do regret it it's a very difficult situation, basically your hormones are fucked up when you de-transition for life, and all sorts of side effects persist. That's why I think its a serious decision to make and you gotta be "all in".

[Blessed2]

I wonder if there really ever was any "traditional gender roles" etc before there was the 'new' perspective on gender, or the "deconstruction".

 

"Traditional" can only exist if there is "new".

 

So is the traditional masculine man and the traditional feminine woman actually new, and not really traditional at all?

 

[Blessed2]

8 minutes ago, Orb said:

Imo people have the right to express themselves however they want. 

 

The "slippery slope" is with kids/pre-teens, that's my only issue with it. 

 

At 9-13 years old, how can one distinguish between a genuine desire to transition and being convinced into doing so? If that makes sense. Theres plenty of stories of people who transitioned at a young age and regretted it deeply. 

 

It's also an issue regarding technology. It'd be cool if there was more advanced ways to instantly transition gender seamlessly, without any side-effects. 

 

I think transitioning is something you should do once you reach 18 years old, it is a very serious decision to make and I dont think a child/teen is in the right space mentally to make a decision like that.

 

I did read that the "regret rate" for people who transition is 1% which is good to see, but nonetheless a lot of care and thought should be taken into account before transitioning.

 

Interested to hear how's the emotional guidance in regard to these thoughts? Fear/worry maybe?

 

[Orb]

Just now, Blessed2 said:

 

Interested to hear how's the emotional guidance in regard to these thoughts? Fear/worry maybe?

 

Not fear/worry, more just caution, taking a pause and just assessing whether it's a wise choice to transition. 

 

It's like any other big decision like buying a car for example, Do I have my finances in order for this? Am I ready to make such a big purchase? What if I wait a few months  and see if interest rates go down? etc.

 

At the end of the day It really doesn't concern me what people do or if young people make that choice and regret it, but if we're having a discussion ill share my 2 cents.

[Jonas Long]

Good thing so many people are so aggressively and vocally "concerned" about the potential regret 1% of people might at some point experience over this specific thing, and this specific thing only.  Especially since, again, those are the people who will eventually prove the non existence of the thing they're concerned over.  

Edited August 9 by Jonas Long

[Reena]

2 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

Good thing so many people are so aggressively and vocally "concerned" about the potential regret 1% of people might at some point experience over this specific thing, and this specific thing only.  Especially since, again, those are the people who will eventually prove the non existence of the thing they're concerned over.  

Isn't that really a concern medically speaking though? 

[Blessed2]

"It can be dangerous to allow kids to transition freely because they might regret it later and ruin their future. We must take this very seriously" is met with emotional guidance, saying there is something off with that thought/interptetation. Significantly off actually. Interesting.

 

[Jonas Long]

4 minutes ago, Reena said:

Isn't that really a concern medically speaking though? 

Is regret ever the end of the story?  Or is it an emotion that might well be temporary.  Can you regret something for a period of time, and move from regret to acceptance and even happiness?  Can potential for regret hold up in any kind of sense as something to use to stop anyone you don't even know from doing anything?  Could there be something that this concern is covering up which, if examined, might turn out to have nothing to with the decisions of anyone else? 

[Orb]

8 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

"It can be dangerous to allow kids to transition freely because they might regret it later and ruin their future. We must take this very seriously" is met with emotional guidance, saying there is something off with that thought/interptetation. Significantly off actually. Interesting.

I never said "we must take this very seriously" I said it's a serious decision to make. 

 

I'm having trouble seeing how taking basic precaution when literally changing your sexual organs/physiology at a young age is somehow "off" or misguided.

 

Don't sacrifice critical thinking or sane decision making for the sake of a position you hold. 

 

For example if your child wanted to transition gender would you let them do it without any questioning? "Okay, what's going on?" "Are you sure you wanna do this?" "What is it that makes you want to transition?" Etc. 

Edited August 9 by Orb

[Phil]

The Package could be required eductational viewing early on in school to convey the seriousness of such a decision. 

[Orb]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

The Package could be required eductational viewing early on in school to convey the seriousness of such a decision. 

Yea sure, just taking precaution imo is the wise way to go. 

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Orb said:

I never said "we must take this very seriously" I said it's a serious decision to make. 

 

I'm having trouble seeing how taking basic precaution when literally changing your sexual organs/physiology at a young age is somehow "off" or misguided.

Find an example of a single person who didn't take the decision to transition seriously, and that no precautions were taken by them or anyone around them regarding the decision.  I'm starting to wonder who these people are that made the decision as a total whim one day and then committed to that whim hard enough to go through the entire process of it. 

[Phil]

@Orb

I’m not convinced you’ve seen the movie. It’s the ultimate sleeper. 

[Orb]

Just now, Jonas Long said:

Find an example of a single person who didn't take the decision to transition seriously, and that no precautions were taken by them or anyone around them regarding the decision.  I'm starting to wonder who these people are that made the decision as a total whim one day and then committed to that whim hard enough to go through the entire process of it. 

All I'm saying is just be careful lol. Idk why this is such a loaded idea.