Rose Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) Is this true: Not every masochist is enlightened, but every enlightened person is a masochist Edited July 22 by Rose Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 You might have to unpack this one a bit. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Phil said: You might have to unpack this one a bit. That it seems that most people try to run away from pain and suffering, thus creating more suffering. Vs. enlightened people are at peace with suffering and pain, they don’t try to run away from it. Edited July 23 by Rose Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 @Rose Thanks. How do you see the relationship between suffering and peace? What roles does interpretation play in shaping them?" Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Phil said: @Rose Thanks. How do you see the relationship between suffering and peace? What roles does interpretation play in shaping them?" Suffering long term seems to be some kind of resistance and desire for things to be different. Peace seems to come from accepting things as is. For example with relationships ending, it’s not that there is no suffering and pain, but it’s experienced rather than resisted, denied, fought with. Also all that practice on nail standing.. This is something I’ve been questioning since my last trips - I always seem to be in some kind of physical pain during them, stomach hurting, unable to breathe.. It seems that people build their whole life trying to resist suffering and thus not living. Living life includes suffering and pain, so it seems that we need to make peace with it. Edited July 23 by Rose Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 7 hours ago, Rose said: That it seems that most people try to run away from pain and suffering, thus creating more suffering. Vs. enlightened people are at peace with suffering and pain, they don’t try to run away from it. When you recognise that trying to run away from pain and suffering only perpetuates it, the masochistic thing to do would be to keep running. Allowing the pain only seems masochistic when the assumption is that pain is a bad thing and should be avoided at all costs. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 7 hours ago, Rose said: accepting things as is. What does "accepting things as is" 'look like' in direct experience? How does one first not accept something and then accept it? What is "accepting things as is" most simply, direct-experiencinly put? Quote Mention I am the playful and ever-present Source, joyfully embracing every thought and emotion as part of my perfect, unfolding co-creative dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Someone might seek a thrill such as bungee jumping for pleasure, and someone might avoid doing that, seeking pleasure and comfort in security instead. Pleasure seeking behavior varies so much because love or good feeling is not derived from anything, it is not the result of any behavior. 9 hours ago, Rose said: That it seems that most people try to run away from pain and suffering, thus creating more suffering. Vs. enlightened people are at peace with suffering and pain, they don’t try to run away from it. LOA or nonduality is that there is no exclusion, and in the attempt to exclude what's considered bad or unwanted, more attention is given and what's unwanted is attracted. It's as if the Universe was your waiter, and when they came to take your order you mumbled what you didn't want on the menu. The waiter attentively listens to ANYTHING except the words "no", "do not", because there's no exclusion. So if that's what you think, that's what will be brought to you. You only have to say what you do want. Once someone perpetually focuses on what's not wanted, there's a kind of control and numbness that can come about in going towards it, in facing it, getting it over with, in ideas about one being courageous or doing the difficult thing first. In the realization that the waiter always brings what you said you didn't want, there can be satisfaction in being one that is never satisfied. This doesn't mean anything except that pleasure is not derived from things and circumstances, and neither is suffering. It's great to explore ice baths, to go running barefoot and to make yourself uncomfortable sometimes, but when it becomes a badge of honor or a habit, it becomes just another layer of protection again. Why wouldn't you just "order" what you wanted, instead of always ordering your least favorite dish on the menu, hoping to make peace with it before you allow yourself to order what it is you do want? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 8 hours ago, Rose said: Suffering long term seems to be some kind of resistance and desire for things to be different. Peace seems to come from accepting things as is. That’s very clarifying. What about even more direct & investigative? What is the difference between suffering long term, and suffering presently? What is the difference between peace being intrinsic of presence (the present or present moment only), and peace being a result or outcome of an action such as accepting? 8 hours ago, Rose said: For example with relationships ending, it’s not that there is no suffering and pain, but it’s experienced rather than resisted, denied, fought with. If experience, strictly & literally presently only is acknowledged… if it is acknowledged that any other moment or other time arises as thoughts… and there is no resistance or denial found or fought with this ‘reality as it is’ (presence)… is there in fact still suffering and pain? If so, can it be described, without any reference before, after or “beyond” - presence or the present? 8 hours ago, Rose said: Also all that practice on nail standing.. What about the practice referred to? Is that a reference to present experience, or a presently experienced thought about a self in time for which practices lead to presence / the present? Is the thought therein discordant, and is there present-guidance? If so, what does the guidance ‘say’, in regard to the sep self of time implied? 8 hours ago, Rose said: This is something I’ve been questioning since my last trips - I always seem to be in some kind of physical pain during them, stomach hurting, unable to breathe.. It seems that people build their whole life trying to resist suffering and thus not living. Living life includes suffering and pain, so it seems that we need to make peace with it. Is the self which knows living includes suffering & pain, and which knows what we need… present? Has this actually been questioned since… or is the thought (the questioning) experienced only, presently? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 58 minutes ago, Mandy said: love or good feeling is not derived from anything, it is not the result of any behavior Can you please elaborate this? I'm having difficulty getting this one . Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, Someone here said: Can you please elaborate this? I'm having difficulty getting this one . Happiness, love or good feeling doesn't come from things or circumstances. It's illusory that love or happiness or appreciation comes as a result of getting what you want. In actuality it is your true nature free of the belief that what will complete me is not there, not enough, not yet. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, Mandy said: Happiness, love or good feeling doesn't come from things or circumstances. It's illusory that love or happiness or appreciation comes as a result of getting what you want. In actuality it is your true nature free of the belief that what will complete me is not there, not enough, not yet. You just repeated it just using more words . I asked how exactly is that the case ? Are you living in a 1st world country with rights and decent repute VS. Homeless kids in Gaza an irrelevant circumstances and they don't pertain to good feeling? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 @Someone here Pain and discomfort are apparently caused. Good feeling, love or appreciation is not caused. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 One could have everything but through crap goggles one would have nothing. One could have nothing but through alignment one would have everything. Quote Mention I am the playful and ever-present Source, joyfully embracing every thought and emotion as part of my perfect, unfolding co-creative dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 @Mandy sure ! Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, Blessed2 said: One could have everything but through crap goggles one would have nothing. One could have nothing but through alignment one would have everything. 🎯 Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, Blessed2 said: One could have everything but through crap goggles one would have nothing. One could have nothing but through alignment one would have everything. 🎤 Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 8 hours ago, Blessed2 said: One could have nothing but through alignment one would have everything. What are you guys referring to as alignment here? Alignment with what? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 @Someone here https://www.actualityofbeing.com/blog/2024/7/24/happiness-innocence-appears-as-gullibility @Rose https://www.actualityofbeing.com/blog/2024/7/13/the-reality-of-oneself-alignment-abundance-and-manifestation Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooper Swam Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 I wouldn’t say masochist. Suffering produces great beauty. Mother Theresa and her self flagellation, now she was a masochist. 👹 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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