5-MeO-DMT Discussion

[Joseph Maynor]

I did 5-MeO-DMT recently and I'm fascinated now with watching videos and hearing perspectives about it.  I don't necessarily want to put ideas in people's minds about it because I think words cheapen the experience.  But there are certain words or connections that people are making about the trip and I want to examine those more philosophical or religious claims.

 

One that fascinates me is the God language.  In the video below Martin Ball (Martin has a Ph.D. in religious studies) and Leo Gura both seem to agree on a theological interpretation of the trip as "this is God!" or "oh my God!".  I didn't have that kind of theological angle in my trip.  I felt like it was me, but the God language wasn't there.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

It's so cool because I can see the difference between the trip and the talk about the trip now.  Talk about the trip has to be framed within the context of the trip to carry significance.  

Edited April 20, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Kevin]

I’ve done like 4 breakthroughs on 5meo. 3 of them were over a year ago. After those trips I really wanted to understand the trip and I tried putting it in all sorts of conceptual boxes. Started believing in solipsism, god, etc. lots of suffering resulting from the suffering and trying to understand. After my most recent breakthrough a few months ago as soon as I came down I realized the experience cannot be understood and all my attempts to understand were causing suffering.

the experience is absolutely insane and beyond words.

[DMT Elf]

@Joseph Maynor

 

Did your 5-MeO-DMT experience change the way you think about and understand consciousness/spirituality?

I don't really understand what you mean when you relate psychedelics to SD stages. I've never done 5-MeO-DMT, but I've had ego death on NN-DMT, and I'm curious to understand how they're different. Does NN prepare you for 5-MeO in any way, or are they totally incomparable experiences? 

Would you/others say that 5-MeO is a necessary experience for spiritual seekers? Like is it a "must" for people who care about understanding consciousness/non-duality?

I know Leo puts it on a pedestal, but I'd like to know how many other people agree with him.

[DMT Elf]

14 minutes ago, Kevin said:

I realized the experience cannot be understood and all my attempts to understand were causing suffering.

Sounds about right. 😂

[Forza21]

13 minutes ago, Kevin said:

 Started believing in solipsism, god, etc. lots of suffering resulting from the suffering and trying to understand. After my most recent breakthrough a few months ago as soon as I came down I realized the experience cannot be understood and all my attempts to understand were causing suffering.

 

hahahaha. The same. 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

@DMT Elf
 

20 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

Did your 5-MeO-DMT experience change the way you think about and understand consciousness/spirituality?

 

I would say that any peak psychedelic experience will change the way you think about consciousness and spirituality, so in that regard 5 MEO DMT is no different - but yes it will offer a new perspective on such topics.
 

20 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

Does NN prepare you for 5-MeO in any way, or are they totally incomparable experiences? 

 

I think they are almost completely opposite experiences, so one does not necessarily prepare you for the other. NN-DMT is a multifaceted outward explosion of pure imagination into an astonishing narrative, whereas 5 MEO is an inward collapse into non-dual nothingness which is completely devoid of any narrative. The only slight similarity is that they both create a complete reality swap, but the nature of those realities is VERY DIFFERENT.

 

20 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

Would you/others say that 5-MeO is a necessary experience for spiritual seekers? Like is it a "must" for people who care about understanding consciousness/non-duality?

 

This will vary from person to person based on their own preferences, but I personally think ayahuasca taken within a traditional setting is higher on the "spiritual bucket list". 5 MEO will tell you what you want to hear - that you are God, that all is one etc. There is a lot of value in that message if you can integrate it properly, but for those who don't... well I'm sure I don't need to name any names.

Ayahuasca on the other hand will tell you the stuff you DON'T want to hear, show you the work you can do to grow, and center it within your human experience - and to me that is what spirituality is truly about.

I think the bottom line with any of these things is that they are simply experiences, and it is what you do with them that counts. You can smoke all the 5 MEO DMT in the world, and drink ayahuasca for ten weeks straight... and you might still be a complete egotistical knob. That said I think these substances offer the most extraordinary experiences available to a human being , so as long as you can approach them with respect and humility I say go try them all  🙂

[Phil]

@Adeptus Psychonautica

That resonates here with 5meo & mushrooms as well.

 

5meo experiences were like a Ferrari that zips smoothly straight to the love (‘in this experience’, no idea what anyone else’s experience could be like). Mushrooms in small amounts, maybe 3g’s or less (never take between 3 & 4 imo) were more of a feel good trippy insightful experience, but higher doses started showing my own bs / discordant beliefs / views, (so to speak) etc. 

[Joseph Maynor]

23 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

@Joseph Maynor

 

Did your 5-MeO-DMT experience change the way you think about and understand consciousness/spirituality?

I don't really understand what you mean when you relate psychedelics to SD stages. I've never done 5-MeO-DMT, but I've had ego death on NN-DMT, and I'm curious to understand how they're different. Does NN prepare you for 5-MeO in any way, or are they totally incomparable experiences? 

Would you/others say that 5-MeO is a necessary experience for spiritual seekers? Like is it a "must" for people who care about understanding consciousness/non-duality?

I know Leo puts it on a pedestal, but I'd like to know how many other people agree with him.

 

(1) Did your 5-MeO-DMT experience change the way you think about and understand consciousness/spirituality?

 

I would say yes and no.  I pretty much knew about stage coral and wrote about it before I ever did 5-MeO-DMT, however doing 5-MeO-DMT was the most direct stage coral experience I think I ever had.  It did change the way I think about consciousness because I've never been "reduced" to consciousness like that before with that degree of loss of the subject-object duality in a trip.  

If you want to learn about stage coral in my framing of it, this is the video.  Coral starts at timestamp: 1' 33'' 15'''

(I did this video in January, well before I did 5-MeO-DMT here in April.)

 

 

(2) I've never done 5-MeO-DMT, but I've had ego death on NN-DMT, and I'm curious to understand how they're different. Does NN prepare you for 5-MeO in any way, or are they totally incomparable experiences? 

 

They're different.  Rob would probably know this better than me because he's probably had a lot more experience with 5-MeO-DMT than me, I've only done the one trip.  I wouldn't say that you need NN'DMT experience to appreciate 5-MeO-DMT.  I think they're different enough to be almost like entirely different psychedelics.  My NN'DMT ego death trip was more terrifying to me because of the sense of movement and process through death.  5-MeO-DMT was more like a complete transformation without the process part being there. 

 

(3) Would you/others say that 5-MeO is a necessary experience for spiritual seekers? Like is it a "must" for people who care about understanding consciousness/non-duality?

 

I don't think it's a must at all because I didn't really learn anything new by doing it.  It was more like an experience of something that I already considered when I was moving through Stage Coral in 2019.  I had already gleaned these insights from other psychedelics and from philosophies like Advaita Vedanta.  What 5-MeO-DMT does is give you a concrete actual experience of what it might be like to be the absolute or consciousness itself as a kind of "nondual being".

(4) I know Leo puts it on a pedestal, but I'd like to know how many other people agree with him.

 

This is the most beneficial thing about me doing 5-MeO-DMT.  Now I can see what Leo was doing in his videos both pro and con.  These are my criticisms with how Leo framed the experience.  (1) The experience was not conceptual at all, in fact philosophy (in the sense of conceptual knowing) seemed ridiculous when I was at that peak state.  It was only when I started coming down that philosophical concepts and ideas started to emerge/flood-in about the experience.  (2) It's not a magic pill to enlightenment.  This said, it's definitely worthwhile for someone who wants to integrate stage coral using a psychedelic that's right up that alley.  It's not necessary, but it's useful.  (3) I don't agree with the religious language/God language that Martin Ball and Leo Gura use to describe the experience.  That was important for me to see -- that the whole "I am God" or "Oh my God!" language was not not part of the peak of the trip for me.  It was more like "I am this meta consciousness that I don't usually notice or consider to be myself".  

Edited April 21, 2022 by Joseph Maynor