Illusion of Degrees/Levels

[Indisguise]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:22 PM, Mandy said:

The mistake is in thinking that the source of this good feeling is found in the higher state or level. The SOURCE is you, prior to thoughts of levels.

@Mandy Makes sense, one question though; why then don't I always feel good? If I am the good feeling?

Am I somehow clouded by thoughts? And if so, shouldn't this clouding also be an illusion? Since there also can't be "clouded" vs "clear" or "degrees of clouding/clarity"? 

On 4/16/2022 at 6:23 PM, Ges said:

So what? There is utility beyond what's "actual".

Yes, but not if these ideas of levels and degrees are getting in the way.

 

@Aware Wolf I like you😄

 

4 hours ago, Phil said:

On 4/16/2022 at 6:23 PM, Ges said:

So what?

Suffering. 

Yeah. 

 

@Phil Why has wakefulness forgotten? ...has wakefulness even forgotten?

[Aware Wolf]

5 minutes ago, Indisguise said:

@Mandy Makes sense, one question though; why then don't I always feel good? If I am the good feeling?

Am I somehow clouded by thoughts? And if so, shouldn't this clouding also be an illusion? Since there also can't be "clouded" vs "clear" or "degrees of clouding/clarity"? 

Yes, but not if these ideas of levels and degrees are getting in the way.

 

@Aware Wolf I like you😄

 

 

There's multiple ways to approach this. There's multiple posts here. 

 

One is, Do you want to always feel good? ALWAYS? -- wouldn't this be a zonked out drugged out zombie like state? A happy zombie, but still a zombie. There's people that go to horror movies to feel scared, and tragedies. I like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest -- and it's sad at the end when Randall P McMurphy dies. Or is it? Is being happy all the time doable? WIthout drugs? Why forsake a drug approach -- if you could take a drug that would make you happy all the time with no side effects -- would you? This sounds like a plot to a science fiction movie, one that all too readily might turn into a horror. There's another movie, Equilibrium where citizens are forced to take a drug that stabilizes their mood. 

 

The Dalai Lama isn't happy all the time. He tries to meet with every Tibetan refugee. Many times they have sad or harrowing stories. He gets tears in his eyes. He's said to be Avalokitshvara, the avatar of compassion. 

 

You're not your thoughts. You're not the good feeling. You're not the bad feeling. You're what's prior. As Rupert says,,  you're the movie screen upon which it all plays out. Can you stop it from playing out? Can you will yourself to be happy? Can you schedule, oh I'll wake up and first I'll have contentment until coffee, then Bliss, then Joy, then some Rapture. Then lunch. I like the mantra, "Whatever can happen to a human being, can happen to me, and I accept the reality of this." I like Equanimity. I think Equanimity is more doable. It encompasses all human emotions. 

 

Once, I felt depression arise. But I didn't feel bad about it all. I was okay with the depression. Not unhappy with it. And i wondered, can it be depression if you don't feel depressed? Then I think later that night, I went to the bathroom, and I had loose bowels. And I wondered, maybe that's it, a mind-body connection. I felt a bit off, a bit blah, maybe lack of energy because of the loose bowels and food not converting to energy efficiently. It's complicated. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

It's weird because in some sense you're only talking within you, but in another sense you're talking to the collective or plurality too.  It's a linguistic/conceptual paradox.  It's the paradox between ego vs. no ego.  It's the paradox between the infinite and the finite.  Most people don't know how to respond to paradox until they start to move into Stage Yellow on up the spiral.  Maybe advanced Stage Green can start to see this.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Joseph Maynor

[Blessed2]

1 hour ago, Indisguise said:

Makes sense, one question though; why then don't I always feel good? If I am the good feeling?

Am I somehow clouded by thoughts? And if so, shouldn't this clouding also be an illusion? Since there also can't be "clouded" vs "clear" or "degrees of clouding/clarity"? 

 

Just a thing that came to mind... If you look "directly" at feeling, without categorizing (good feeling or bad feeling, anger, joy, fear, boredom... etc.) and without conceptualizing (this is a neurological state, this is hormones serotonin/dopamine) but directly into feeling right here now in actuality, what is it? What is feeling? Where does it come from? Does it have edges?

 

Have you ever felt anything else than... Self?

[Indisguise]

7 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

If you look "directly" at feeling, without categorizing (good feeling or bad feeling, anger, joy, fear, boredom... etc.) and without conceptualizing (this is a neurological state, this is hormones serotonin/dopamine) but directly into feeling right here now in actuality, what is it? What is feeling? Where does it come from? Does it have edges?

 

Have you ever felt anything else than... Self?

No, I have never felt anything but the Self (even though I didn't always know that i am everything)

. Everything is me, everything is known by/as being. And no, of course I have no edges.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Indisguise said:

Why has wakefulness forgotten? ...has wakefulness even forgotten?

Yes & no.

Infinite can not know finite. If you & I want to build a cabin, we get lumber etc and get to work. Infinite can not go to the lumber store because infinite is infinite. So infinite be’s a lumber store, Indisguise & Phil, and builds a cabin. 

[Forza21]

 

2 hours ago, Indisguise said:

 

 

@Phil Why has wakefulness forgotten? ...has wakefulness even forgotten?

When i have glimpses of "no self" and it goes with peace and bliss, it's clear for me, that it's ALWAYS there, that's what IS, like in front of the nose, nothing is hidden,  it couldn't be easier & more obvious. That's the reality. 

Then i got into a thought loop again, and i "try" to get there. And this "trying" is what keeps me away from that clarity. It's like perfect joke 😄

Edited April 20, 2022 by Forza21

[Mandy]

3 hours ago, Indisguise said:

@Mandy Makes sense, one question though; why then don't I always feel good? If I am the good feeling?

Am I somehow clouded by thoughts? And if so, shouldn't this clouding also be an illusion? Since there also can't be "clouded" vs "clear" or "degrees of clouding/clarity"? 

Yes, but not if these ideas of levels and degrees are getting in the way.

You aren't "A feeling", you are feeling itself only now. So feeling is unconditional, "good" ain't a condition but it sure is Good. If you demand to always feel good, you bypass feeling itself for demanding "A feeling" which is actually... a thought. 

 

[Indisguise]

5 minutes ago, Mandy said:

You aren't "A feeling", you are feeling itself only now. So feeling is unconditional, "good" ain't a condition but it sure is Good. If you demand to always feel good, you bypass feeling itself for demanding "A feeling" which is actually... a thought. 

This is good stuff.

[Mandy]

@Indisguise Is it though? 😉❤️

[Blessed2]

12 hours ago, Phil said:

Infinite can not know finite. If you & I want to build a cabin, we get lumber etc and get to work. Infinite can not go to the lumber store because infinite is infinite. So infinite be’s a lumber store, Indisguise & Phil, and builds a cabin. 

 

!!!

 

What other words would you say points 'most accurately' to this infinite being?

[Phil]

@Blessed2

Ineffable. 

🙂

 

[bardh]

On 4/16/2022 at 4:42 PM, Ges said:

Degrees and levels are real. It's a mistake to try to get rid of them. Spiritual bypassing, I believe it is called.

What does spiritual bypassing for you?