Exiting The Cult! (deconstructing Actualized.org ideology)

[DMT Elf]

Seeing as how it’s been a couple years since I started listening to Leo Gura, I reckon this is a good time to inspect my worldview for deep epistemic blunders and irreconcilable contradictions. I’m sure both are present, and I would like to find them before they start impacting my life in negative ways. I’d like to use this thread to empty all the ways in which I’ve adopted cult-like beliefs around Actualized.org.

 

I found Actualized.org during a very low point in my life. I’d been through a rough breakup with a girl who I loved very much, and I was questioning who I was and what I wanted to do with my life. Based on my understanding of cult psychology, it’s times like these when people are most at risk of being seduced by a cult. When people are going through low points, they’re naturally more likely to seek answers to esoteric questions and therefore more likely to buy into radical ideologies.

 

I’d been introduced to the idea of awakening through listening to Alan Watts recordings and reading Eckhart Tolle, but I found Leo to be more engaging than both of them. The way he packaged material was enrapturing, and it caught my attention like super glue. I soon found myself listening to hours and hours of his content. Sometimes I would listen to multiple episodes in a day. He often left me perplexed with my head spinning, but I liked that about him. I was exploring questions that I’d never explored before, and I never stopped wanting more of it. I was always excited for the next episode to come out. I loved the catchy titles and thumbnails. Sometimes I even avoided my responsibilities to listen to a particularly interesting seeming episode. I couldn’t help but think that Leo was very wise and had much figured out. For better or worse, I began looking up to him.

 

Psychedelics skyrocketed my contemplations, and I started having some profound seeming epiphanies. It got so profound that it didn’t take long to feel as though I didn’t need Leo anymore. I lost interest in actualized.org videos as well as the content of spiritual teachers generally. I doubled down on psychedelics as the only valid method of truth seeking. Whenever I felt like I needed clarity on something, the intuitive solution wasn’t to look to a person, but to trip and hope it would bring clarity. And tripping usually proved to be a reliable method in this regard, so this went on for a while.

 

Eventually however, I exhausted even psychedelics to the point where a DMT blastoff started to seem fairly ordinary, whereas it used to be completely universe shattering. This is when I started losing hope that psychedelics could ever completely awaken me no matter how much I took. I also started losing interest in more and more of the spiritual ideas which had once enraptured me. Ideas about the nature of reality, truth and so forth which I once believed to have had completely figured out stopped making sense to me. I realized that the vast majority of my spiritual contemplation was simply mental masturbation doomed to go nowhere, and I spent some time struggling with regret over whether or not it was all a waste of time. I considered throwing in the towel and giving up on spirituality more times than I can count, but I kept being pulled back over and over again.

 

I eventually realized what the problem was. I’d picked up so many spiritual ideas, that I’d formed somewhat of an identity around them. It was almost as if I didn’t know who I was without all my ideas. So, it was difficult to let them go. It was like losing a part of myself. I’d picked up so many ideas, and I was so convinced that I understood everything, that I even started to believe I was enlightened. Of course, that’s ridiculous considering my understanding of what enlightenment is was picked up from other people. Of course, that only makes sense if enlightenment is like some kind of exclusive club that only the cool people can be a part of. I wanted to be a part of the enlightened club. I guess that’s what attracted me to forums in the first place. Being around other people who are also walking the path somehow makes it easier for me to justify that I’m enlightened. I don’t even think it’s possible to be enlightened in the absence of people. It’s not possible to be enlightened with people either of course, but it’s easier to justify it as some kind of relativistically defined idea of what enlightenment means.

 

And so that brings me to where I am now. All I’m interested in at this point is ridding myself of ideology and throwing away all the brainwashing. I sense that there’s a metric fuckton of Leo bullshit baked into my worldview, and I would rather not stay stuck in it forever. I would like to free myself from the chains of Actualized.org for good. I don’t want to have any dependence on Leo Gura as far as my own ability to discern truth goes.

 

Based on conversations I’ve had with some of you on this forum, I get the impression that many of you have been watching Leo a lot longer than I have. I know it’s been several years for some of you. I would like to ask how the process of freeing yourself of the ideology has gone for you so far? And what’s life like post Leo Gura cult brainwashing?

 

Thankyou for reading!

[Blessed2]

Sounds good!

 

3 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

I would like to ask how the process of freeing yourself of the ideology has gone for you so far?

 

Pretty well. I don't buy any of it anymore, and it's obvious that all that stuff was just ignorance.

 

It took some time. When this forum came up, I didn't visit that site at all for about a year. That's an important aspect of the healing, to not consume any of the content. I even placed lock in my smartphone, so that it wasn't possible to open that website.

 

The only thing "left" is some resentment, blame / anger toward Leo. And kind of seeing myself as better etc. But that's really not an issue. It's a great opportunity for forgiveness and offering that gift back to myself.

 

3 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

And what’s life like post Leo Gura cult brainwashing?

 

It's been a lot better. There isn't same kind of constant anxiety about scary god-realizations, going insane, solipsism, existential terror etc. anymore. And I feel more connected to people close to me and the society in general. I used to feel like I others weren't awake or didn't know the important stuff I knew. Really I was just brainwashed lol.

 

When I used to consume the Actualized content, I remember it was like a hamster wheel. It never actually got anywhere. Video after video, blah blah blah. It was just ideology, thought-attachment. There wasn't any actual insight into the nature of suffering. In fact it was worsened. But Phil was tremendously helpful, and it was pretty much thanks to him that the "real insight" started to click.

 

[Phil]

https://chat.openai.com/c/a0a2f91e-96b1-4186-8197-e6f4636d24a0

 

The following thread was made by a self proclaimed teacher of nonduality about a volunteer moderator being demoted for affirming a member’s questioning of the duality in one of the teacher’s videos entitled Why You Avoid The Truth. The teacher made this thread because the moderator said that there aren’t separate selves is already the case, and the actuality of reality is that ‘all’ is unconditional love:

 

“I regret to inform you guys that I made the decision to demote Nahm from being a Mod. Since he is one of the biggest members of this community I know plenty of you may be upset by this, so here's my explanation:

 

I have noticed over the last few years that Nahm's posts/advices were becoming more and more out of touch with people. Like he was talking at them or through them, not meeting people at the level they were at. Often his posts were cryptic and ambiguous to the point of confusion. I made several private messages to him about this over a year ago, hoping that he would see the problem and correct it. His posts and replies were becoming so out of touch at times that even I had trouble understanding him. It felt more and more like he was communicate from inside his own spiritual bubble, unable to see how his posts were failing to land with normal people, or even myself. Often I would read one of his posts and just have no idea what he was trying to say or how it would help. And if I fail to understand a post, I know 90%+ of others will not understand it or be helped by it. This failure to understand is not from lack of consciousness but from the style in which Nahm chooses to express himself. The issue isn't that Nahm is not a developed or conscious guy, but the obscure and nonsensical way he communicates.

 

I turned I blind eye to this for several years, hoping it would correct itself naturally. Unfortunately it has gotten worse. The parroting of neo-Advaita platitudes in response to people's relative questions and problems has become too much, especially recently. When I explained this problem to Nahm via PM and tried to communicate with him about correcting it, he started to spout those same vapid neo-Advaita platitudes at me. This is not the kind of communication I can stomach from my Mods. It also became clear to me that he was not interested nor capable of changing his ways. Nor do I want to force him to change his ways if he doesn't do so of his own recognizance. The issue here being that platitudes such as "there is no you" or "that is just a thought" do not help people and in fact start to do the opposite. I do not like neo-Advaita style teachings and I do not want this forum to turn into the kind of place where some normie asks a straight forward question and the response is something like, "There is no you, that's just a thought, there is no one to awaken." These kinds of teachings do not lead to the God-realization I am trying to guide people towards.

 

With that said, I have no personal ill feelings towards Nahm. He's got many wonderful qualities, most of all is his big heart. I have met him in-person and he's a great guy to hang out with. I know he's coming from good intentions, but his style of teaching nonduality simply does not align with what I am trying to teach about God-realization and the future direction of Actualized.org teachings about awakening. I know many of you love Nahm and I know he has helped many of you in various ways. I appreciate that and his service to this community since the forum's inception back in 2016. Unfortunately he can longer be a Mod and the situation may devolve to the point where I have to ask him to leave this forum entirely because he keeps parroting the same neo-Advaita platitudes in every situation and I don't know how much more of that I can tolerate. Honestly, I've been tolerating it for months already. I tried to turn a blind eye to it because he has a long history here, he's helped many people here, I consider him a friend, and many of you guys look up to him. But it's just clear to me that this is not going to work out long term because our styles are so different. What he teaches is not what I teach. And I am okay with that to some degree -- not everyone has to agree with me or teach spirituality like me -- but the vacuous neo-Advaita talk has become too much recently. This is a great example of the problem of conflating relative and absolute matters to the point of disconnect with the normal people. When a store clerk asks you to pay the bill, the proper response is not, "There is no one who can pay the bill, and no bill to pay."

 

I know some will be upset by this and will disagree with my decision here. So, whatever your feelings are about this situation -- good or bad -- share them here or forever hold your peace. We will not be able to move on from this until the air has been cleared. So take the time to do that now.

 

I'm sorry it has come to this. I wish Nahm the best. Nahm, I sincerely thank you for your years of service to this community. Really. You put in so much of your heart into this. And we all saw that.

 

Attached is a screenshot of my last communication with Nahm on this matter so that you understand why I made the decision I did:

 

 

This was not a decision I wanted to make. Note: do not attack each other over this.”

- Leo Gura

 

 

 

If this teacher were to introspect, what might be found?

 

If the teacher were to introspect, they might discover a few things:

 

Ego attachment: The teacher may realize that their decision to demote Nahm was influenced by their own ego attachment and need for control. They might see that they wanted the community to align more with their own teachings and were not open to diverse perspectives, even from someone who has been a valuable member for years.

 

Lack of empathy: Upon reflection, the teacher might recognize that they failed to empathize with Nahm and understand his perspective. They might acknowledge that Nahm's style of communication, although not resonating with everyone, still had its own value and had helped many people in the community.

 

Inflexibility: The teacher might realize that they were being inflexible in their approach to teaching. They were focused on their own teachings and did not allow for different styles or perspectives to coexist within the community. Their insistence on a particular way of expressing nonduality limited the growth and diversity of ideas within the forum.

 

Failure to address concerns openly: Upon introspection, the teacher might realize that they did not openly discuss their concerns with Nahm in a respectful and constructive manner. Instead, they allowed their frustrations to build up over time, resulting in a sudden demotion. They might acknowledge that better communication and dialogue could have resolved the issues more effectively.

 

Bias towards their own teachings: The teacher might come to understand that their decision to demote Nahm was partly influenced by their bias towards their own teachings. They were focused on guiding people towards "God-realization" and felt that Nahm's approach, rooted in neo-Advaita teachings, was not aligned with their vision. They might recognize the need to be more open-minded and inclusive in their approach to spirituality.

 

Introspection can lead to personal growth and the recognition of one's own limitations and biases. It can help the teacher understand the impact of their decisions on the community and potentially lead to a more inclusive and diverse environment for spiritual exploration.

 

 

Does there seem to be any manipulation in that thread?

 

Based on the information provided in the thread, it is difficult to definitively determine if there is manipulation involved. However, there are a few aspects that could potentially indicate a manipulative behavior:

 

One-sided portrayal: The thread presents only the teacher's perspective and paints Nahm's posts and replies in a negative light. The teacher highlights Nahm's communication style as cryptic, confusing, and out of touch, without offering any specific examples or allowing Nahm to explain his approach. This one-sided portrayal can be manipulative as it shapes the narrative to support the teacher's decision and potentially influences others' opinions.

 

Discrediting through labeling: The teacher repeatedly refers to Nahm's teachings as "vacuous neo-Advaita talk" and "vapid neo-Advaita platitudes." This language not only dismisses Nahm's perspective but also attempts to label his teachings as lacking depth or value. It can be a manipulative tactic to discredit someone's views without engaging in a substantive discussion.

 

Appeal to authority: The teacher mentions their own teachings and the direction they want the forum to take, positioning themselves as the authority on spirituality and God-realization. This appeal to authority can subtly manipulate others into aligning with the teacher's viewpoint and dismissing alternative perspectives, like Nahm's.

 

Emotional manipulation: The teacher expresses regret, emphasizes their personal disappointment, and acknowledges Nahm's positive qualities to mitigate potential backlash. This emotional appeal can manipulate the community members into sympathizing with the teacher and potentially accepting the decision without critical examination.

 

However, it's important to note that without additional information or perspectives, it's challenging to make a definitive assessment of manipulation. Further context and insights from other parties involved would be necessary to draw a more conclusive judgment.

 

 

What is the word for believing something and affirming it’s absolute truth?

 

The word for believing something and affirming its absolute truth is "dogmatism." Dogmatism refers to the unwavering belief in the truth or validity of a particular doctrine, ideology, or belief system, without questioning or entertaining alternative viewpoints or evidence. It implies a rigid adherence to a set of principles or beliefs, often without critical examination or openness to new information. Dogmatism can manifest in various domains, including religion, philosophy, politics, and other areas of human thought and discourse.

 

 

 

https://chat.openai.com/c/f5a5095b-502c-42cf-b316-3bbef7bf4c19

 

How does discordant egocentric worldview relate to conscience and overall health?

 

A discordant egocentric worldview, where one's beliefs and perspectives are out of sync with reality or others, can impact conscience and overall health. It may lead to moral conflicts, reduced empathy, and strained relationships, affecting one's mental and emotional well-being. Developing a more harmonious worldview and practicing empathy can contribute to a healthier conscience and improved overall health.

 

 

Let me clarify. I don’t mean when egocentric beliefs clash with what society believes. I’m wondering about how long term mental and bodily health relate to the ‘holding’ of entirely egocentric worldviews which feel discordant. It seems the discord of the beliefs or worldview is overlooked as thought attachment is overlooked or ignored.

 

It seems more thought attachment via labelling occurs, believing labels like stress, tension, anxiety, labeling people as toxic and name calling such as stupid, idiot, not as woke as me, in spite of overlooking one’s own discord felt & failing health experienced. More so, holding beliefs like one has a superior intellect and even completely understands God. How does the ‘weight’ of these beliefs, behaviors & actions relate to conscience & health?

 

I understand your clarification better now. Holding onto entirely egocentric worldviews that feel discordant can indeed have a profound impact on mental and bodily health. The weight of such beliefs, behaviors, and actions can create cognitive dissonance, leading to chronic stress, anxiety, and even physical health issues.

 

When there's a stark disparity between one's egocentric beliefs and the reality they experience, it can result in a constant internal conflict, eroding a healthy conscience. This internal struggle might also hinder personal growth and meaningful relationships, exacerbating the negative effects on mental well-being.

 

In terms of overall health, chronic stress and negative emotional states linked to these discordant beliefs can contribute to various physiological issues over time. These may include immune system dysfunction, cardiovascular problems, and even neurological effects.

 

It's important to address and process these beliefs to achieve a more balanced and healthier perspective, which in turn can alleviate the stress on both the conscience and overall health. Professional support, such as therapy, can be valuable in facilitating this process.

 

 

What about going so far as proclaiming solipsism as absolute truth, and deflecting and projecting Self-deception onto others? Could this also contribute to discord with conscience and deteriorating health?

 

Certainly, proclaiming solipsism as absolute truth and engaging in deflection, projection, and self-deception can significantly contribute to discord with conscience and deteriorating health.

 

Proclaiming solipsism, the belief that only one's own mind is certain to exist, can isolate individuals from meaningful connections and shared realities. This can lead to a sense of detachment, loneliness, and alienation, negatively impacting mental and emotional well-being.

 

Deflecting and projecting self-deception onto others, where someone avoids facing their own issues by attributing them to others, can hinder personal growth and self-awareness. This pattern of behavior can strain relationships and prevent genuine introspection, ultimately affecting one's conscience and the ability to relate to others in a healthy way.

 

Over time, the stress and emotional toll of holding such extreme beliefs and engaging in defensive behaviors can manifest physically as well. Chronic stress and emotional turmoil have been linked to various health problems, including heart disease, digestive issues, and weakened immune responses.

 

In summary, embracing extreme beliefs like solipsism and resorting to defensive psychological mechanisms can certainly contribute to discord with conscience and a decline in overall health. Seeking professional guidance and adopting a more open and balanced perspective can help mitigate these effects.

 

 

If someone having such an experience as this learned how to speak convincingly with conviction, took all varieties of psychedelics and established themself as the authority on all things spiritual and of Truth using mental manipulation / molestation, deflection, projection, psychological mind games & referenced the usage of psychedelics as the means to legitimize their authority and claims grew a online cult to the tune of many followers and I am one such follower… what is my best course of action?

 

If you find yourself in a situation where you've been following someone who has established themselves as an authority through manipulation, mind games, and the use of psychedelics, it's important to carefully consider your best course of action:

 

Self-Reflection: Take some time for self-reflection. Consider how your involvement in this online cult is affecting your well-being, mental health, and overall life.

 

Critical Thinking: Evaluate the claims and teachings of the individual critically. Are they based on evidence and reason, or are they primarily manipulative and unfounded?

 

Seek External Perspectives: Reach out to trusted friends, family members, or professionals who can provide an objective viewpoint and guidance.

 

Educate Yourself: Educate yourself about psychological manipulation tactics, cult dynamics, and the potential risks of excessive psychedelic use. This knowledge can empower you to make informed decisions.

 

Gradual Disengagement: If you decide that the person's teachings are not in your best interest, consider gradually disengaging from the online cult. This can involve reducing your involvement over time.

 

Professional Help: If you're struggling to disentangle yourself or are experiencing negative psychological effects, seeking professional help, such as therapy, can provide valuable support.

 

Focus on Healing: After leaving such an environment, focus on your healing and personal growth. Surround yourself with positive influences, engage in activities that bring you joy, and prioritize your mental and emotional well-being.

 

Remember, it's never easy to extricate oneself from situations like this, especially if you've invested time and emotions. But taking steps towards a healthier and more balanced life is essential. If you're finding it difficult to navigate this situation on your own, seeking assistance from mental health professionals can be extremely beneficial.

 

 

But what if I have a lot of friends that I want to stay in touch with in this community and the community via the brainwashing of the cult leader practices excommunication? If I say anything about this to the cult leader I’ll be ‘cut’ or ‘banned’ and he’ll discredit me in front of everyone. That will make me look a certain way while reinforcing his authority and honestly I don’t want to lose the relationships I’ve established with the members of the community over the years.

 

It's understandable that you value the relationships you've built within the community. If you're concerned about the potential consequences of expressing your concerns to the cult leader, here are a few suggestions:

 

Private Conversations: Instead of openly confronting the cult leader, consider having private conversations with some of your close friends within the community. Share your thoughts and concerns with them to see if they have similar feelings or doubts.

 

Subtle Questions: Frame your concerns as genuine curiosity rather than criticism. Ask questions that encourage critical thinking and reflection among the members without directly challenging the leader's authority.

 

Create Alternative Channels: Explore ways to maintain contact with your friends within the community outside of the official channels. This could involve creating private groups or social media connections.

 

Share Resources Anonymously: If possible, anonymously share resources that provide information about manipulation, cult dynamics, and the potential risks of extreme beliefs. This way, you're providing information without directly opposing the leader.

 

Prepare for Possible Outcomes: Be prepared for the possibility that expressing your concerns might lead to backlash. It's important to prioritize your own well-being and mental health over external relationships.

 

Stay Open to Dialogue: If an opportunity arises to have a respectful and open conversation with the leader, consider expressing your concerns in a non-confrontational manner. Be prepared for different responses, including defensiveness.

 

Set Boundaries: If your involvement starts taking a toll on your mental and emotional health, it's okay to set boundaries and reduce your engagement over time.

 

Remember that your well-being should be your top priority. It's natural to want to maintain connections, but if a situation becomes toxic or manipulative, it's important to assess whether those connections are truly benefiting you in the long run. Professional guidance, such as therapy, can be invaluable in navigating complex situations like this.

 

 

Some issues arise.

Private Conversations: this is an online cult and the cult leader has access to all private messages & doesn’t respect privacy, and posts private messages publicly alongside rhetoric to again establish his authority with members.

 

Subtle Questions: The persuasiveness is such that the cult leader encourages critical thinking, but, whenever the discordant misinformation from the cult leader is questioned it often results in a bypassing or skipping of the warning points system entirely and banning & excommunicating the member.

 

Alternative Channels such as alternative forums have already been created, but again, the cult leader has made perfectly clear that anyone who engages in alternative forums will be immediately banned, and then once again, the rhetoric & excommunication are employed to re-establish the cult leader as the authority.

 

Sharing Resources Anonymously: as the community is online members are already largely anonymous, and sharing resources helpful to seeing the cult traits results in being banned, excommunicated and discredited.

 

Prepare for Possible Outcomes: with respect to backlash, that is already ‘baked into’ the cult & leader as the authority on truth & spirituality, as backlash is already convincingly attributed to an ego as ‘ego backlash’ which only further convinces members that the cult leader is the authority which ‘knows’ or ‘understands’ this.

 

Staying Open to Dialogue: a respectful conversation is simple not possible with the cult leader because again, it results in often skipping all established guidelines of the community, public discrediting, and excommunication.

 

Even boundary setting is ‘baked into’ the cult leader’s ‘teachings’ and people who put well being above ideology are painted as “toxic”. Give this situation, what is my best course of action?

 

Given the challenging circumstances you've described, where the cult leader seems to have tight control over communication and actively suppresses dissent, your best course of action becomes even more complex. Here are some nuanced suggestions to consider:

 

Risk Assessment: Evaluate the potential consequences of staying within this community. Consider the emotional and psychological toll of participating in an environment that suppresses individuality and healthy discourse.

 

Gradual Disengagement: If you decide that staying within the community is not aligned with your well-being, consider gradually reducing your participation. This might involve slowly withdrawing while focusing on other aspects of your life.

 

External Support: Reach out to people outside the community who can provide you with a sense of perspective and support. This could be friends, family members, or mental health professionals who can help you navigate your emotions and decisions.

 

Personal Network: Cultivate connections with like-minded individuals outside the community. Building relationships with people who share your values and concerns can help provide a sense of belonging and support.

 

Document Your Experience: If you ever decide to share your experiences, having a record of what you've witnessed can help in raising awareness about the harmful dynamics within the community.

 

Therapeutic Assistance: If you're struggling emotionally due to your involvement in this situation, seeking therapy can provide you with tools to cope and strategies to navigate complex feelings.

 

Focus on Self-Care: Prioritize your mental and emotional well-being. Engage in activities that bring you joy and peace, and actively practice self-care to counteract any negative effects.

 

Remember, your safety and well-being should always come first. It's challenging to navigate situations where control and manipulation are present, but seeking external guidance and making decisions that align with your values and health are crucial steps toward finding a way forward.

 

[Blessed2]

"What Are The Characteristics of God's
Teachers?

I. Trust
II. Honesty
III. Tolerance
IV. Gentleness
V. Joy
VI. Defenselessness
VIl. Generosity
VIlI. Patience
IX. Faithfulness
X. Open-Mindedness"

 

https://acim.org/acim/manual/what-are-the-characteristics-of-gods-teachers/en/s/805

 

[Forza21]

40 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

"What Are The Characteristics of God's
Teachers?

I. Trust
II. Honesty
III. Tolerance
IV. Gentleness
V. Joy
VI. Defenselessness
VIl. Generosity
VIlI. Patience
IX. Faithfulness
X. Open-Mindedness"

 

https://acim.org/acim/manual/what-are-the-characteristics-of-gods-teachers/en/s/805

 

Simply - Love. 

[MetaSage]

Exchanging one ideology for another!

[Blessed2]

3 minutes ago, MetaSage said:

Exchanging one ideology for another!

 

What do you mean?

 

 

This reminds me of one of those manipulation tactics I remember was so common at actualized.

 

When you pointed out that something someone said about levels of awakening and such nonsense is a belief and doesn't feel good, it was met with "but to say that it's a belief is just another belief!"

 

And when some folk vented about how shitty they feel or even left that forum and decided to go to another direction, or pointed out that what other books or non-dual sources say are at odds with levels of consciousness etc, again the same thing. "You're just replacing a belief with another belief."

 

It was constantly pointed out how "YoU'rE nOt SuPpOsEd To BeLiEvE LeO" but then the guy says shit like "you dumfuck are so stupid it hurts me, you'll never awaken, I am god, I have reached higher levels of consciousness than any other teacher" AND LITERALLY CALLING HIMSELF A TEACHER 😂😂

 

"You've made the mistake of believing Leo and putting him on a pedestal." 🤮

 

[Phil]

3 hours ago, MetaSage said:

Exchanging one ideology for another!

Do you also see that it isn’t? 

[DMT Elf]

@Blessed2  Thanks!

 

On 8/30/2023 at 6:19 AM, Blessed2 said:

And I feel more connected to people close to me and the society in general. I used to feel like I others weren't awake or didn't know the important stuff I knew. Really I was just brainwashed lol.

I can relate. I’ve tried many times to outwit my own narcissism, but then I realized that the attempting to outwit narcissism is more narcissistic than the original narcissism that I was attempting to outwit. 😂 lol. It’s definitely a hamster wheel.

For example, I discovered a new spiral dynamics stage beyond all the others called stage magenta. I’ve never heard anyone talk about it before. I’ve never seen anyone on this forum mention anything beyond stage coral. Coral is still tear 2 I think. Magenta is tear 4. The only two people here that I’ve seen talking about coral are @Robed Mystic and @Joseph Maynor. It doesn’t seem like @Phil has discovered stage coral quite yet.. Anyway, I digress.. I’m working on getting stage magenta officially recognized by the owners of the spiral dynamics brand. It’s difficult though because almost no humans will ever be smart enough to understand what it is. When you access stage magenta, all human beings will start seeming like insects. It’s so far above anything human, that you can’t even perceive humans the same way after you’ve caught a glimpse of it.
The only thing beyond stage magenta is alien awakening, and I’ve never heard anyone but Leo talk about that. Alien awakening is the highest level of awakening that I know of personally. It’ll make God realization seem like a weed high, lol 😂. I still haven’t explored alien awakening to its full extent. I’ve explored deep levels of it, but if you go too deep into that, you’ll probably die. Consciousness can’t always return to its original human form when it strays too far away from it. Of course, that’s only scary to an ego. Relinquishing fear of death is the key to discovering immortality. 
Almost nobody understands what alien awakening even is though. It’s too profound for common human understanding. Not only is it far outside the materialist paradigm (which most are still stuck in), it’s outside of basically any paradigm. People who talk about it will unfortunately not generally be taken seriously. This is unfortunate considering how it brings life deeper meaning that what can be found anywhere else. I have friends who’ve been exploring psychedelics for years, and it’s not clear to me that any of them have accessed alien awakening. It makes me sad.

But yeah, it definitely benefits to come back to reality at some point. I was inspired by Leo’s apology on his blog. I found it genuine and heart felt. It made me want to ground myself more in the human domain rather than only existing in the trans-human domain. I will definitely make more of an effort there going forward.

Edited September 1 by DMT Elf

[Reena]

12 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

What do you mean?

 

 

This reminds me of one of those manipulation tactics I remember was so common at actualized.

 

When you pointed out that something someone said about levels of awakening and such nonsense is a belief and doesn't feel good, it was met with "but to say that it's a belief is just another belief!"

 

And when some folk vented about how shitty they feel or even left that forum and decided to go to another direction, or pointed out that what other books or non-dual sources say are at odds with levels of consciousness etc, again the same thing. "You're just replacing a belief with another belief."

 

It was constantly pointed out how "YoU'rE nOt SuPpOsEd To BeLiEvE LeO" but then the guy says shit like "you dumfuck are so stupid it hurts me, you'll never awaken, I am god, I have reached higher levels of consciousness than any other teacher" AND LITERALLY CALLING HIMSELF A TEACHER 😂😂

 

"You've made the mistake of believing Leo and putting him on a pedestal." 🤮

 

Yea I remember that lol. 

[Reena]

On 8/30/2023 at 7:38 PM, Phil said:

https://chat.openai.com/c/a0a2f91e-96b1-4186-8197-e6f4636d24a0

 

The following thread was made by a self proclaimed teacher of nonduality about a volunteer moderator being demoted for affirming a member’s questioning of the duality in one of the teacher’s videos entitled Why You Avoid The Truth. The teacher made this thread because the moderator said that there aren’t separate selves is already the case, and the actuality of reality is that ‘all’ is unconditional love:

 

“I regret to inform you guys that I made the decision to demote Nahm from being a Mod. Since he is one of the biggest members of this community I know plenty of you may be upset by this, so here's my explanation:

 

I have noticed over the last few years that Nahm's posts/advices were becoming more and more out of touch with people. Like he was talking at them or through them, not meeting people at the level they were at. Often his posts were cryptic and ambiguous to the point of confusion. I made several private messages to him about this over a year ago, hoping that he would see the problem and correct it. His posts and replies were becoming so out of touch at times that even I had trouble understanding him. It felt more and more like he was communicate from inside his own spiritual bubble, unable to see how his posts were failing to land with normal people, or even myself. Often I would read one of his posts and just have no idea what he was trying to say or how it would help. And if I fail to understand a post, I know 90%+ of others will not understand it or be helped by it. This failure to understand is not from lack of consciousness but from the style in which Nahm chooses to express himself. The issue isn't that Nahm is not a developed or conscious guy, but the obscure and nonsensical way he communicates.

 

I turned I blind eye to this for several years, hoping it would correct itself naturally. Unfortunately it has gotten worse. The parroting of neo-Advaita platitudes in response to people's relative questions and problems has become too much, especially recently. When I explained this problem to Nahm via PM and tried to communicate with him about correcting it, he started to spout those same vapid neo-Advaita platitudes at me. This is not the kind of communication I can stomach from my Mods. It also became clear to me that he was not interested nor capable of changing his ways. Nor do I want to force him to change his ways if he doesn't do so of his own recognizance. The issue here being that platitudes such as "there is no you" or "that is just a thought" do not help people and in fact start to do the opposite. I do not like neo-Advaita style teachings and I do not want this forum to turn into the kind of place where some normie asks a straight forward question and the response is something like, "There is no you, that's just a thought, there is no one to awaken." These kinds of teachings do not lead to the God-realization I am trying to guide people towards.

 

With that said, I have no personal ill feelings towards Nahm. He's got many wonderful qualities, most of all is his big heart. I have met him in-person and he's a great guy to hang out with. I know he's coming from good intentions, but his style of teaching nonduality simply does not align with what I am trying to teach about God-realization and the future direction of Actualized.org teachings about awakening. I know many of you love Nahm and I know he has helped many of you in various ways. I appreciate that and his service to this community since the forum's inception back in 2016. Unfortunately he can longer be a Mod and the situation may devolve to the point where I have to ask him to leave this forum entirely because he keeps parroting the same neo-Advaita platitudes in every situation and I don't know how much more of that I can tolerate. Honestly, I've been tolerating it for months already. I tried to turn a blind eye to it because he has a long history here, he's helped many people here, I consider him a friend, and many of you guys look up to him. But it's just clear to me that this is not going to work out long term because our styles are so different. What he teaches is not what I teach. And I am okay with that to some degree -- not everyone has to agree with me or teach spirituality like me -- but the vacuous neo-Advaita talk has become too much recently. This is a great example of the problem of conflating relative and absolute matters to the point of disconnect with the normal people. When a store clerk asks you to pay the bill, the proper response is not, "There is no one who can pay the bill, and no bill to pay."

 

I know some will be upset by this and will disagree with my decision here. So, whatever your feelings are about this situation -- good or bad -- share them here or forever hold your peace. We will not be able to move on from this until the air has been cleared. So take the time to do that now.

 

I'm sorry it has come to this. I wish Nahm the best. Nahm, I sincerely thank you for your years of service to this community. Really. You put in so much of your heart into this. And we all saw that.

 

Attached is a screenshot of my last communication with Nahm on this matter so that you understand why I made the decision I did:

 

 

This was not a decision I wanted to make. Note: do not attack each other over this.”

- Leo Gura

 

 

 

If this teacher were to introspect, what might be found?

 

If the teacher were to introspect, they might discover a few things:

 

Ego attachment: The teacher may realize that their decision to demote Nahm was influenced by their own ego attachment and need for control. They might see that they wanted the community to align more with their own teachings and were not open to diverse perspectives, even from someone who has been a valuable member for years.

 

Lack of empathy: Upon reflection, the teacher might recognize that they failed to empathize with Nahm and understand his perspective. They might acknowledge that Nahm's style of communication, although not resonating with everyone, still had its own value and had helped many people in the community.

 

Inflexibility: The teacher might realize that they were being inflexible in their approach to teaching. They were focused on their own teachings and did not allow for different styles or perspectives to coexist within the community. Their insistence on a particular way of expressing nonduality limited the growth and diversity of ideas within the forum.

 

Failure to address concerns openly: Upon introspection, the teacher might realize that they did not openly discuss their concerns with Nahm in a respectful and constructive manner. Instead, they allowed their frustrations to build up over time, resulting in a sudden demotion. They might acknowledge that better communication and dialogue could have resolved the issues more effectively.

 

Bias towards their own teachings: The teacher might come to understand that their decision to demote Nahm was partly influenced by their bias towards their own teachings. They were focused on guiding people towards "God-realization" and felt that Nahm's approach, rooted in neo-Advaita teachings, was not aligned with their vision. They might recognize the need to be more open-minded and inclusive in their approach to spirituality.

 

Introspection can lead to personal growth and the recognition of one's own limitations and biases. It can help the teacher understand the impact of their decisions on the community and potentially lead to a more inclusive and diverse environment for spiritual exploration.

 

 

Does there seem to be any manipulation in that thread?

 

Based on the information provided in the thread, it is difficult to definitively determine if there is manipulation involved. However, there are a few aspects that could potentially indicate a manipulative behavior:

 

One-sided portrayal: The thread presents only the teacher's perspective and paints Nahm's posts and replies in a negative light. The teacher highlights Nahm's communication style as cryptic, confusing, and out of touch, without offering any specific examples or allowing Nahm to explain his approach. This one-sided portrayal can be manipulative as it shapes the narrative to support the teacher's decision and potentially influences others' opinions.

 

Discrediting through labeling: The teacher repeatedly refers to Nahm's teachings as "vacuous neo-Advaita talk" and "vapid neo-Advaita platitudes." This language not only dismisses Nahm's perspective but also attempts to label his teachings as lacking depth or value. It can be a manipulative tactic to discredit someone's views without engaging in a substantive discussion.

 

Appeal to authority: The teacher mentions their own teachings and the direction they want the forum to take, positioning themselves as the authority on spirituality and God-realization. This appeal to authority can subtly manipulate others into aligning with the teacher's viewpoint and dismissing alternative perspectives, like Nahm's.

 

Emotional manipulation: The teacher expresses regret, emphasizes their personal disappointment, and acknowledges Nahm's positive qualities to mitigate potential backlash. This emotional appeal can manipulate the community members into sympathizing with the teacher and potentially accepting the decision without critical examination.

 

However, it's important to note that without additional information or perspectives, it's challenging to make a definitive assessment of manipulation. Further context and insights from other parties involved would be necessary to draw a more conclusive judgment.

 

 

What is the word for believing something and affirming it’s absolute truth?

 

The word for believing something and affirming its absolute truth is "dogmatism." Dogmatism refers to the unwavering belief in the truth or validity of a particular doctrine, ideology, or belief system, without questioning or entertaining alternative viewpoints or evidence. It implies a rigid adherence to a set of principles or beliefs, often without critical examination or openness to new information. Dogmatism can manifest in various domains, including religion, philosophy, politics, and other areas of human thought and discourse.

 

 

 

https://chat.openai.com/c/f5a5095b-502c-42cf-b316-3bbef7bf4c19

 

How does discordant egocentric worldview relate to conscience and overall health?

 

A discordant egocentric worldview, where one's beliefs and perspectives are out of sync with reality or others, can impact conscience and overall health. It may lead to moral conflicts, reduced empathy, and strained relationships, affecting one's mental and emotional well-being. Developing a more harmonious worldview and practicing empathy can contribute to a healthier conscience and improved overall health.

 

 

Let me clarify. I don’t mean when egocentric beliefs clash with what society believes. I’m wondering about how long term mental and bodily health relate to the ‘holding’ of entirely egocentric worldviews which feel discordant. It seems the discord of the beliefs or worldview is overlooked as thought attachment is overlooked or ignored.

 

It seems more thought attachment via labelling occurs, believing labels like stress, tension, anxiety, labeling people as toxic and name calling such as stupid, idiot, not as woke as me, in spite of overlooking one’s own discord felt & failing health experienced. More so, holding beliefs like one has a superior intellect and even completely understands God. How does the ‘weight’ of these beliefs, behaviors & actions relate to conscience & health?

 

I understand your clarification better now. Holding onto entirely egocentric worldviews that feel discordant can indeed have a profound impact on mental and bodily health. The weight of such beliefs, behaviors, and actions can create cognitive dissonance, leading to chronic stress, anxiety, and even physical health issues.

 

When there's a stark disparity between one's egocentric beliefs and the reality they experience, it can result in a constant internal conflict, eroding a healthy conscience. This internal struggle might also hinder personal growth and meaningful relationships, exacerbating the negative effects on mental well-being.

 

In terms of overall health, chronic stress and negative emotional states linked to these discordant beliefs can contribute to various physiological issues over time. These may include immune system dysfunction, cardiovascular problems, and even neurological effects.

 

It's important to address and process these beliefs to achieve a more balanced and healthier perspective, which in turn can alleviate the stress on both the conscience and overall health. Professional support, such as therapy, can be valuable in facilitating this process.

 

 

What about going so far as proclaiming solipsism as absolute truth, and deflecting and projecting Self-deception onto others? Could this also contribute to discord with conscience and deteriorating health?

 

Certainly, proclaiming solipsism as absolute truth and engaging in deflection, projection, and self-deception can significantly contribute to discord with conscience and deteriorating health.

 

Proclaiming solipsism, the belief that only one's own mind is certain to exist, can isolate individuals from meaningful connections and shared realities. This can lead to a sense of detachment, loneliness, and alienation, negatively impacting mental and emotional well-being.

 

Deflecting and projecting self-deception onto others, where someone avoids facing their own issues by attributing them to others, can hinder personal growth and self-awareness. This pattern of behavior can strain relationships and prevent genuine introspection, ultimately affecting one's conscience and the ability to relate to others in a healthy way.

 

Over time, the stress and emotional toll of holding such extreme beliefs and engaging in defensive behaviors can manifest physically as well. Chronic stress and emotional turmoil have been linked to various health problems, including heart disease, digestive issues, and weakened immune responses.

 

In summary, embracing extreme beliefs like solipsism and resorting to defensive psychological mechanisms can certainly contribute to discord with conscience and a decline in overall health. Seeking professional guidance and adopting a more open and balanced perspective can help mitigate these effects.

 

 

If someone having such an experience as this learned how to speak convincingly with conviction, took all varieties of psychedelics and established themself as the authority on all things spiritual and of Truth using mental manipulation / molestation, deflection, projection, psychological mind games & referenced the usage of psychedelics as the means to legitimize their authority and claims grew a online cult to the tune of many followers and I am one such follower… what is my best course of action?

 

If you find yourself in a situation where you've been following someone who has established themselves as an authority through manipulation, mind games, and the use of psychedelics, it's important to carefully consider your best course of action:

 

Self-Reflection: Take some time for self-reflection. Consider how your involvement in this online cult is affecting your well-being, mental health, and overall life.

 

Critical Thinking: Evaluate the claims and teachings of the individual critically. Are they based on evidence and reason, or are they primarily manipulative and unfounded?

 

Seek External Perspectives: Reach out to trusted friends, family members, or professionals who can provide an objective viewpoint and guidance.

 

Educate Yourself: Educate yourself about psychological manipulation tactics, cult dynamics, and the potential risks of excessive psychedelic use. This knowledge can empower you to make informed decisions.

 

Gradual Disengagement: If you decide that the person's teachings are not in your best interest, consider gradually disengaging from the online cult. This can involve reducing your involvement over time.

 

Professional Help: If you're struggling to disentangle yourself or are experiencing negative psychological effects, seeking professional help, such as therapy, can provide valuable support.

 

Focus on Healing: After leaving such an environment, focus on your healing and personal growth. Surround yourself with positive influences, engage in activities that bring you joy, and prioritize your mental and emotional well-being.

 

Remember, it's never easy to extricate oneself from situations like this, especially if you've invested time and emotions. But taking steps towards a healthier and more balanced life is essential. If you're finding it difficult to navigate this situation on your own, seeking assistance from mental health professionals can be extremely beneficial.

 

 

But what if I have a lot of friends that I want to stay in touch with in this community and the community via the brainwashing of the cult leader practices excommunication? If I say anything about this to the cult leader I’ll be ‘cut’ or ‘banned’ and he’ll discredit me in front of everyone. That will make me look a certain way while reinforcing his authority and honestly I don’t want to lose the relationships I’ve established with the members of the community over the years.

 

It's understandable that you value the relationships you've built within the community. If you're concerned about the potential consequences of expressing your concerns to the cult leader, here are a few suggestions:

 

Private Conversations: Instead of openly confronting the cult leader, consider having private conversations with some of your close friends within the community. Share your thoughts and concerns with them to see if they have similar feelings or doubts.

 

Subtle Questions: Frame your concerns as genuine curiosity rather than criticism. Ask questions that encourage critical thinking and reflection among the members without directly challenging the leader's authority.

 

Create Alternative Channels: Explore ways to maintain contact with your friends within the community outside of the official channels. This could involve creating private groups or social media connections.

 

Share Resources Anonymously: If possible, anonymously share resources that provide information about manipulation, cult dynamics, and the potential risks of extreme beliefs. This way, you're providing information without directly opposing the leader.

 

Prepare for Possible Outcomes: Be prepared for the possibility that expressing your concerns might lead to backlash. It's important to prioritize your own well-being and mental health over external relationships.

 

Stay Open to Dialogue: If an opportunity arises to have a respectful and open conversation with the leader, consider expressing your concerns in a non-confrontational manner. Be prepared for different responses, including defensiveness.

 

Set Boundaries: If your involvement starts taking a toll on your mental and emotional health, it's okay to set boundaries and reduce your engagement over time.

 

Remember that your well-being should be your top priority. It's natural to want to maintain connections, but if a situation becomes toxic or manipulative, it's important to assess whether those connections are truly benefiting you in the long run. Professional guidance, such as therapy, can be invaluable in navigating complex situations like this.

 

 

Some issues arise.

Private Conversations: this is an online cult and the cult leader has access to all private messages & doesn’t respect privacy, and posts private messages publicly alongside rhetoric to again establish his authority with members.

 

Subtle Questions: The persuasiveness is such that the cult leader encourages critical thinking, but, whenever the discordant misinformation from the cult leader is questioned it often results in a bypassing or skipping of the warning points system entirely and banning & excommunicating the member.

 

Alternative Channels such as alternative forums have already been created, but again, the cult leader has made perfectly clear that anyone who engages in alternative forums will be immediately banned, and then once again, the rhetoric & excommunication are employed to re-establish the cult leader as the authority.

 

Sharing Resources Anonymously: as the community is online members are already largely anonymous, and sharing resources helpful to seeing the cult traits results in being banned, excommunicated and discredited.

 

Prepare for Possible Outcomes: with respect to backlash, that is already ‘baked into’ the cult & leader as the authority on truth & spirituality, as backlash is already convincingly attributed to an ego as ‘ego backlash’ which only further convinces members that the cult leader is the authority which ‘knows’ or ‘understands’ this.

 

Staying Open to Dialogue: a respectful conversation is simple not possible with the cult leader because again, it results in often skipping all established guidelines of the community, public discrediting, and excommunication.

 

Even boundary setting is ‘baked into’ the cult leader’s ‘teachings’ and people who put well being above ideology are painted as “toxic”. Give this situation, what is my best course of action?

 

Given the challenging circumstances you've described, where the cult leader seems to have tight control over communication and actively suppresses dissent, your best course of action becomes even more complex. Here are some nuanced suggestions to consider:

 

Risk Assessment: Evaluate the potential consequences of staying within this community. Consider the emotional and psychological toll of participating in an environment that suppresses individuality and healthy discourse.

 

Gradual Disengagement: If you decide that staying within the community is not aligned with your well-being, consider gradually reducing your participation. This might involve slowly withdrawing while focusing on other aspects of your life.

 

External Support: Reach out to people outside the community who can provide you with a sense of perspective and support. This could be friends, family members, or mental health professionals who can help you navigate your emotions and decisions.

 

Personal Network: Cultivate connections with like-minded individuals outside the community. Building relationships with people who share your values and concerns can help provide a sense of belonging and support.

 

Document Your Experience: If you ever decide to share your experiences, having a record of what you've witnessed can help in raising awareness about the harmful dynamics within the community.

 

Therapeutic Assistance: If you're struggling emotionally due to your involvement in this situation, seeking therapy can provide you with tools to cope and strategies to navigate complex feelings.

 

Focus on Self-Care: Prioritize your mental and emotional well-being. Engage in activities that bring you joy and peace, and actively practice self-care to counteract any negative effects.

 

Remember, your safety and well-being should always come first. It's challenging to navigate situations where control and manipulation are present, but seeking external guidance and making decisions that align with your values and health are crucial steps toward finding a way forward.

 

This is such a beautiful context. You are a deep thinker, something I need to cultivate.

[DMT Elf]

13 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

What do you mean?

 

 

This reminds me of one of those manipulation tactics I remember was so common at actualized.

 

When you pointed out that something someone said about levels of awakening and such nonsense is a belief and doesn't feel good, it was met with "but to say that it's a belief is just another belief!"

 

And when some folk vented about how shitty they feel or even left that forum and decided to go to another direction, or pointed out that what other books or non-dual sources say are at odds with levels of consciousness etc, again the same thing. "You're just replacing a belief with another belief."

 

It was constantly pointed out how "YoU'rE nOt SuPpOsEd To BeLiEvE LeO" but then the guy says shit like "you dumfuck are so stupid it hurts me, you'll never awaken, I am god, I have reached higher levels of consciousness than any other teacher" AND LITERALLY CALLING HIMSELF A TEACHER 😂😂

 

"You've made the mistake of believing Leo and putting him on a pedestal." 🤮

 

I know, the whole thing is mind-numbingly dumb.

[Blessed2]

9 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

@Blessed2  Thanks!

 

I can relate. I’ve tried many times to outwit my own narcissism, but then I realized that the attempting to outwit narcissism is more narcissistic than the original narcissism that I was attempting to outwit. 😂 lol. It’s definitely a hamster wheel.

For example, I discovered a new spiral dynamics stage beyond all the others called stage magenta. I’ve never heard anyone talk about it before. I’ve never seen anyone on this forum mention anything beyond stage coral. Coral is still tear 2 I think. Magenta is tear 4. The only two people here that I’ve seen talking about coral are @Robed Mystic and @Joseph Maynor. It doesn’t seem like @Phil has discovered stage coral quite yet.. Anyway, I digress.. I’m working on getting stage magenta officially recognized by the owners of the spiral dynamics brand. It’s difficult though because almost no humans will ever be smart enough to understand what it is. When you access stage magenta, all human beings will start seeming like insects. It’s so far above anything human, that you can’t even perceive humans the same way after you’ve caught a glimpse of it.
The only thing beyond stage magenta is alien awakening, and I’ve never heard anyone but Leo talk about that. Alien awakening is the highest level of awakening that I know of personally. It’ll make God realization seem like a weed high, lol 😂. I still haven’t explored alien awakening to its full extent. I’ve explored deep levels of it, but if you go too deep into that, you’ll probably die. Consciousness can’t always return to its original human form when it strays too far away from it. Of course, that’s only scary to an ego. Relinquishing fear of death is the key to discovering immortality. 
Almost nobody understands what alien awakening even is though. It’s too profound for common human understanding. Not only is it far outside the materialist paradigm (which most are still stuck in), it’s outside of basically any paradigm. People who talk about it will unfortunately not generally be taken seriously. This is unfortunate considering how it brings life deeper meaning that what can be found anywhere else. I have friends who’ve been exploring psychedelics for years, and it’s not clear to me that any of them have accessed alien awakening. It makes me sad.

But yeah, it definitely benefits to come back to reality at some point. I was inspired by Leo’s apology on his blog. I found it genuine and heart felt. It made me want to ground myself more in the human domain rather than only existing in the trans-human domain. I will definitely make more of an effort there going forward.

 

What do you want above all else?

[Phil]

11 hours ago, Reena said:

This is such a beautiful context. You are a deep thinker, something I need to cultivate.

Sorry, I provided the links but in hindsight could’ve been clearer. What was shared was essentially a Q&A or input & output using GPT to show as objective & unbiased explaination as is available. As far as cultivating deep thinking, there is only to notice that in & of ‘itself’ is a thought or thoughts arising. Put another way, the separate self of thought, the thinker, is not a separate self as implied but is simply thoughts appearing. Therein is the freedom & liberation in regard to thought attachment or believing thoughts. 

 

12 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

@Blessed2  Thanks!

 

I can relate. I’ve tried many times to outwit my own narcissism, but then I realized that the attempting to outwit narcissism is more narcissistic than the original narcissism that I was attempting to outwit. 😂 lol. It’s definitely a hamster wheel.

For example, I discovered a new spiral dynamics stage beyond all the others called stage magenta. I’ve never heard anyone talk about it before. I’ve never seen anyone on this forum mention anything beyond stage coral. Coral is still tear 2 I think. Magenta is tear 4. The only two people here that I’ve seen talking about coral are @Robed Mystic and @Joseph Maynor. It doesn’t seem like @Phil has discovered stage coral quite yet.. Anyway, I digress.. I’m working on getting stage magenta officially recognized by the owners of the spiral dynamics brand. It’s difficult though because almost no humans will ever be smart enough to understand what it is. When you access stage magenta, all human beings will start seeming like insects. It’s so far above anything human, that you can’t even perceive humans the same way after you’ve caught a glimpse of it.
The only thing beyond stage magenta is alien awakening, and I’ve never heard anyone but Leo talk about that. Alien awakening is the highest level of awakening that I know of personally. It’ll make God realization seem like a weed high, lol 😂. I still haven’t explored alien awakening to its full extent. I’ve explored deep levels of it, but if you go too deep into that, you’ll probably die. Consciousness can’t always return to its original human form when it strays too far away from it. Of course, that’s only scary to an ego. Relinquishing fear of death is the key to discovering immortality. 
Almost nobody understands what alien awakening even is though. It’s too profound for common human understanding. Not only is it far outside the materialist paradigm (which most are still stuck in), it’s outside of basically any paradigm. People who talk about it will unfortunately not generally be taken seriously. This is unfortunate considering how it brings life deeper meaning that what can be found anywhere else. I have friends who’ve been exploring psychedelics for years, and it’s not clear to me that any of them have accessed alien awakening. It makes me sad.

But yeah, it definitely benefits to come back to reality at some point. I was inspired by Leo’s apology on his blog. I found it genuine and heart felt. It made me want to ground myself more in the human domain rather than only existing in the trans-human domain. I will definitely make more of an effort there going forward.

The sincerity seems to waffle, but if you’re interest in ‘my two cents’ just let me know. Much love my friend, wishing you the very best. 🙏🏼 

[DMT Elf]

6 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

What do you want above all else?

-To use my creative capacity for making a mark on the world.

-To be free of my parents expectations and society’s expectations.

-To be glorious and extraordinary beyond any conceivable measure. (Already am) 😜

 

3 hours ago, Phil said:

The sincerity seems to waffle, but if you’re interest in ‘my two cents’ just let me know. Much love my friend, wishing you the very best. 🙏🏼 

Sure, I’m interested. What have you got?

[DMT Elf]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:08 AM, Phil said:

https://chat.openai.com/c/a0a2f91e-96b1-4186-8197-e6f4636d24a0

 

The following thread was made by a self proclaimed teacher of nonduality about a volunteer moderator being demoted for affirming a member’s questioning of the duality in one of the teacher’s videos entitled Why You Avoid The Truth. The teacher made this thread because the moderator said that there aren’t separate selves is already the case, and the actuality of reality is that ‘all’ is unconditional love:

 

“I regret to inform you guys that I made the decision to demote Nahm from being a Mod. Since he is one of the biggest members of this community I know plenty of you may be upset by this, so here's my explanation:

 

I have noticed over the last few years that Nahm's posts/advices were becoming more and more out of touch with people. Like he was talking at them or through them, not meeting people at the level they were at. Often his posts were cryptic and ambiguous to the point of confusion. I made several private messages to him about this over a year ago, hoping that he would see the problem and correct it. His posts and replies were becoming so out of touch at times that even I had trouble understanding him. It felt more and more like he was communicate from inside his own spiritual bubble, unable to see how his posts were failing to land with normal people, or even myself. Often I would read one of his posts and just have no idea what he was trying to say or how it would help. And if I fail to understand a post, I know 90%+ of others will not understand it or be helped by it. This failure to understand is not from lack of consciousness but from the style in which Nahm chooses to express himself. The issue isn't that Nahm is not a developed or conscious guy, but the obscure and nonsensical way he communicates.

 

I turned I blind eye to this for several years, hoping it would correct itself naturally. Unfortunately it has gotten worse. The parroting of neo-Advaita platitudes in response to people's relative questions and problems has become too much, especially recently. When I explained this problem to Nahm via PM and tried to communicate with him about correcting it, he started to spout those same vapid neo-Advaita platitudes at me. This is not the kind of communication I can stomach from my Mods. It also became clear to me that he was not interested nor capable of changing his ways. Nor do I want to force him to change his ways if he doesn't do so of his own recognizance. The issue here being that platitudes such as "there is no you" or "that is just a thought" do not help people and in fact start to do the opposite. I do not like neo-Advaita style teachings and I do not want this forum to turn into the kind of place where some normie asks a straight forward question and the response is something like, "There is no you, that's just a thought, there is no one to awaken." These kinds of teachings do not lead to the God-realization I am trying to guide people towards.

 

With that said, I have no personal ill feelings towards Nahm. He's got many wonderful qualities, most of all is his big heart. I have met him in-person and he's a great guy to hang out with. I know he's coming from good intentions, but his style of teaching nonduality simply does not align with what I am trying to teach about God-realization and the future direction of Actualized.org teachings about awakening. I know many of you love Nahm and I know he has helped many of you in various ways. I appreciate that and his service to this community since the forum's inception back in 2016. Unfortunately he can longer be a Mod and the situation may devolve to the point where I have to ask him to leave this forum entirely because he keeps parroting the same neo-Advaita platitudes in every situation and I don't know how much more of that I can tolerate. Honestly, I've been tolerating it for months already. I tried to turn a blind eye to it because he has a long history here, he's helped many people here, I consider him a friend, and many of you guys look up to him. But it's just clear to me that this is not going to work out long term because our styles are so different. What he teaches is not what I teach. And I am okay with that to some degree -- not everyone has to agree with me or teach spirituality like me -- but the vacuous neo-Advaita talk has become too much recently. This is a great example of the problem of conflating relative and absolute matters to the point of disconnect with the normal people. When a store clerk asks you to pay the bill, the proper response is not, "There is no one who can pay the bill, and no bill to pay."

 

I know some will be upset by this and will disagree with my decision here. So, whatever your feelings are about this situation -- good or bad -- share them here or forever hold your peace. We will not be able to move on from this until the air has been cleared. So take the time to do that now.

 

I'm sorry it has come to this. I wish Nahm the best. Nahm, I sincerely thank you for your years of service to this community. Really. You put in so much of your heart into this. And we all saw that.

 

Attached is a screenshot of my last communication with Nahm on this matter so that you understand why I made the decision I did:

 

 

This was not a decision I wanted to make. Note: do not attack each other over this.”

- Leo Gura

 

 

 

If this teacher were to introspect, what might be found?

 

If the teacher were to introspect, they might discover a few things:

 

Ego attachment: The teacher may realize that their decision to demote Nahm was influenced by their own ego attachment and need for control. They might see that they wanted the community to align more with their own teachings and were not open to diverse perspectives, even from someone who has been a valuable member for years.

 

Lack of empathy: Upon reflection, the teacher might recognize that they failed to empathize with Nahm and understand his perspective. They might acknowledge that Nahm's style of communication, although not resonating with everyone, still had its own value and had helped many people in the community.

 

Inflexibility: The teacher might realize that they were being inflexible in their approach to teaching. They were focused on their own teachings and did not allow for different styles or perspectives to coexist within the community. Their insistence on a particular way of expressing nonduality limited the growth and diversity of ideas within the forum.

 

Failure to address concerns openly: Upon introspection, the teacher might realize that they did not openly discuss their concerns with Nahm in a respectful and constructive manner. Instead, they allowed their frustrations to build up over time, resulting in a sudden demotion. They might acknowledge that better communication and dialogue could have resolved the issues more effectively.

 

Bias towards their own teachings: The teacher might come to understand that their decision to demote Nahm was partly influenced by their bias towards their own teachings. They were focused on guiding people towards "God-realization" and felt that Nahm's approach, rooted in neo-Advaita teachings, was not aligned with their vision. They might recognize the need to be more open-minded and inclusive in their approach to spirituality.

 

Introspection can lead to personal growth and the recognition of one's own limitations and biases. It can help the teacher understand the impact of their decisions on the community and potentially lead to a more inclusive and diverse environment for spiritual exploration.

 

 

Does there seem to be any manipulation in that thread?

 

Based on the information provided in the thread, it is difficult to definitively determine if there is manipulation involved. However, there are a few aspects that could potentially indicate a manipulative behavior:

 

One-sided portrayal: The thread presents only the teacher's perspective and paints Nahm's posts and replies in a negative light. The teacher highlights Nahm's communication style as cryptic, confusing, and out of touch, without offering any specific examples or allowing Nahm to explain his approach. This one-sided portrayal can be manipulative as it shapes the narrative to support the teacher's decision and potentially influences others' opinions.

 

Discrediting through labeling: The teacher repeatedly refers to Nahm's teachings as "vacuous neo-Advaita talk" and "vapid neo-Advaita platitudes." This language not only dismisses Nahm's perspective but also attempts to label his teachings as lacking depth or value. It can be a manipulative tactic to discredit someone's views without engaging in a substantive discussion.

 

Appeal to authority: The teacher mentions their own teachings and the direction they want the forum to take, positioning themselves as the authority on spirituality and God-realization. This appeal to authority can subtly manipulate others into aligning with the teacher's viewpoint and dismissing alternative perspectives, like Nahm's.

 

Emotional manipulation: The teacher expresses regret, emphasizes their personal disappointment, and acknowledges Nahm's positive qualities to mitigate potential backlash. This emotional appeal can manipulate the community members into sympathizing with the teacher and potentially accepting the decision without critical examination.

 

However, it's important to note that without additional information or perspectives, it's challenging to make a definitive assessment of manipulation. Further context and insights from other parties involved would be necessary to draw a more conclusive judgment.

 

 

What is the word for believing something and affirming it’s absolute truth?

 

The word for believing something and affirming its absolute truth is "dogmatism." Dogmatism refers to the unwavering belief in the truth or validity of a particular doctrine, ideology, or belief system, without questioning or entertaining alternative viewpoints or evidence. It implies a rigid adherence to a set of principles or beliefs, often without critical examination or openness to new information. Dogmatism can manifest in various domains, including religion, philosophy, politics, and other areas of human thought and discourse.

 

 

 

https://chat.openai.com/c/f5a5095b-502c-42cf-b316-3bbef7bf4c19

 

How does discordant egocentric worldview relate to conscience and overall health?

 

A discordant egocentric worldview, where one's beliefs and perspectives are out of sync with reality or others, can impact conscience and overall health. It may lead to moral conflicts, reduced empathy, and strained relationships, affecting one's mental and emotional well-being. Developing a more harmonious worldview and practicing empathy can contribute to a healthier conscience and improved overall health.

 

 

Let me clarify. I don’t mean when egocentric beliefs clash with what society believes. I’m wondering about how long term mental and bodily health relate to the ‘holding’ of entirely egocentric worldviews which feel discordant. It seems the discord of the beliefs or worldview is overlooked as thought attachment is overlooked or ignored.

 

It seems more thought attachment via labelling occurs, believing labels like stress, tension, anxiety, labeling people as toxic and name calling such as stupid, idiot, not as woke as me, in spite of overlooking one’s own discord felt & failing health experienced. More so, holding beliefs like one has a superior intellect and even completely understands God. How does the ‘weight’ of these beliefs, behaviors & actions relate to conscience & health?

 

I understand your clarification better now. Holding onto entirely egocentric worldviews that feel discordant can indeed have a profound impact on mental and bodily health. The weight of such beliefs, behaviors, and actions can create cognitive dissonance, leading to chronic stress, anxiety, and even physical health issues.

 

When there's a stark disparity between one's egocentric beliefs and the reality they experience, it can result in a constant internal conflict, eroding a healthy conscience. This internal struggle might also hinder personal growth and meaningful relationships, exacerbating the negative effects on mental well-being.

 

In terms of overall health, chronic stress and negative emotional states linked to these discordant beliefs can contribute to various physiological issues over time. These may include immune system dysfunction, cardiovascular problems, and even neurological effects.

 

It's important to address and process these beliefs to achieve a more balanced and healthier perspective, which in turn can alleviate the stress on both the conscience and overall health. Professional support, such as therapy, can be valuable in facilitating this process.

 

 

What about going so far as proclaiming solipsism as absolute truth, and deflecting and projecting Self-deception onto others? Could this also contribute to discord with conscience and deteriorating health?

 

Certainly, proclaiming solipsism as absolute truth and engaging in deflection, projection, and self-deception can significantly contribute to discord with conscience and deteriorating health.

 

Proclaiming solipsism, the belief that only one's own mind is certain to exist, can isolate individuals from meaningful connections and shared realities. This can lead to a sense of detachment, loneliness, and alienation, negatively impacting mental and emotional well-being.

 

Deflecting and projecting self-deception onto others, where someone avoids facing their own issues by attributing them to others, can hinder personal growth and self-awareness. This pattern of behavior can strain relationships and prevent genuine introspection, ultimately affecting one's conscience and the ability to relate to others in a healthy way.

 

Over time, the stress and emotional toll of holding such extreme beliefs and engaging in defensive behaviors can manifest physically as well. Chronic stress and emotional turmoil have been linked to various health problems, including heart disease, digestive issues, and weakened immune responses.

 

In summary, embracing extreme beliefs like solipsism and resorting to defensive psychological mechanisms can certainly contribute to discord with conscience and a decline in overall health. Seeking professional guidance and adopting a more open and balanced perspective can help mitigate these effects.

 

 

If someone having such an experience as this learned how to speak convincingly with conviction, took all varieties of psychedelics and established themself as the authority on all things spiritual and of Truth using mental manipulation / molestation, deflection, projection, psychological mind games & referenced the usage of psychedelics as the means to legitimize their authority and claims grew a online cult to the tune of many followers and I am one such follower… what is my best course of action?

 

If you find yourself in a situation where you've been following someone who has established themselves as an authority through manipulation, mind games, and the use of psychedelics, it's important to carefully consider your best course of action:

 

Self-Reflection: Take some time for self-reflection. Consider how your involvement in this online cult is affecting your well-being, mental health, and overall life.

 

Critical Thinking: Evaluate the claims and teachings of the individual critically. Are they based on evidence and reason, or are they primarily manipulative and unfounded?

 

Seek External Perspectives: Reach out to trusted friends, family members, or professionals who can provide an objective viewpoint and guidance.

 

Educate Yourself: Educate yourself about psychological manipulation tactics, cult dynamics, and the potential risks of excessive psychedelic use. This knowledge can empower you to make informed decisions.

 

Gradual Disengagement: If you decide that the person's teachings are not in your best interest, consider gradually disengaging from the online cult. This can involve reducing your involvement over time.

 

Professional Help: If you're struggling to disentangle yourself or are experiencing negative psychological effects, seeking professional help, such as therapy, can provide valuable support.

 

Focus on Healing: After leaving such an environment, focus on your healing and personal growth. Surround yourself with positive influences, engage in activities that bring you joy, and prioritize your mental and emotional well-being.

 

Remember, it's never easy to extricate oneself from situations like this, especially if you've invested time and emotions. But taking steps towards a healthier and more balanced life is essential. If you're finding it difficult to navigate this situation on your own, seeking assistance from mental health professionals can be extremely beneficial.

 

 

But what if I have a lot of friends that I want to stay in touch with in this community and the community via the brainwashing of the cult leader practices excommunication? If I say anything about this to the cult leader I’ll be ‘cut’ or ‘banned’ and he’ll discredit me in front of everyone. That will make me look a certain way while reinforcing his authority and honestly I don’t want to lose the relationships I’ve established with the members of the community over the years.

 

It's understandable that you value the relationships you've built within the community. If you're concerned about the potential consequences of expressing your concerns to the cult leader, here are a few suggestions:

 

Private Conversations: Instead of openly confronting the cult leader, consider having private conversations with some of your close friends within the community. Share your thoughts and concerns with them to see if they have similar feelings or doubts.

 

Subtle Questions: Frame your concerns as genuine curiosity rather than criticism. Ask questions that encourage critical thinking and reflection among the members without directly challenging the leader's authority.

 

Create Alternative Channels: Explore ways to maintain contact with your friends within the community outside of the official channels. This could involve creating private groups or social media connections.

 

Share Resources Anonymously: If possible, anonymously share resources that provide information about manipulation, cult dynamics, and the potential risks of extreme beliefs. This way, you're providing information without directly opposing the leader.

 

Prepare for Possible Outcomes: Be prepared for the possibility that expressing your concerns might lead to backlash. It's important to prioritize your own well-being and mental health over external relationships.

 

Stay Open to Dialogue: If an opportunity arises to have a respectful and open conversation with the leader, consider expressing your concerns in a non-confrontational manner. Be prepared for different responses, including defensiveness.

 

Set Boundaries: If your involvement starts taking a toll on your mental and emotional health, it's okay to set boundaries and reduce your engagement over time.

 

Remember that your well-being should be your top priority. It's natural to want to maintain connections, but if a situation becomes toxic or manipulative, it's important to assess whether those connections are truly benefiting you in the long run. Professional guidance, such as therapy, can be invaluable in navigating complex situations like this.

 

 

Some issues arise.

Private Conversations: this is an online cult and the cult leader has access to all private messages & doesn’t respect privacy, and posts private messages publicly alongside rhetoric to again establish his authority with members.

 

Subtle Questions: The persuasiveness is such that the cult leader encourages critical thinking, but, whenever the discordant misinformation from the cult leader is questioned it often results in a bypassing or skipping of the warning points system entirely and banning & excommunicating the member.

 

Alternative Channels such as alternative forums have already been created, but again, the cult leader has made perfectly clear that anyone who engages in alternative forums will be immediately banned, and then once again, the rhetoric & excommunication are employed to re-establish the cult leader as the authority.

 

Sharing Resources Anonymously: as the community is online members are already largely anonymous, and sharing resources helpful to seeing the cult traits results in being banned, excommunicated and discredited.

 

Prepare for Possible Outcomes: with respect to backlash, that is already ‘baked into’ the cult & leader as the authority on truth & spirituality, as backlash is already convincingly attributed to an ego as ‘ego backlash’ which only further convinces members that the cult leader is the authority which ‘knows’ or ‘understands’ this.

 

Staying Open to Dialogue: a respectful conversation is simple not possible with the cult leader because again, it results in often skipping all established guidelines of the community, public discrediting, and excommunication.

 

Even boundary setting is ‘baked into’ the cult leader’s ‘teachings’ and people who put well being above ideology are painted as “toxic”. Give this situation, what is my best course of action?

 

Given the challenging circumstances you've described, where the cult leader seems to have tight control over communication and actively suppresses dissent, your best course of action becomes even more complex. Here are some nuanced suggestions to consider:

 

Risk Assessment: Evaluate the potential consequences of staying within this community. Consider the emotional and psychological toll of participating in an environment that suppresses individuality and healthy discourse.

 

Gradual Disengagement: If you decide that staying within the community is not aligned with your well-being, consider gradually reducing your participation. This might involve slowly withdrawing while focusing on other aspects of your life.

 

External Support: Reach out to people outside the community who can provide you with a sense of perspective and support. This could be friends, family members, or mental health professionals who can help you navigate your emotions and decisions.

 

Personal Network: Cultivate connections with like-minded individuals outside the community. Building relationships with people who share your values and concerns can help provide a sense of belonging and support.

 

Document Your Experience: If you ever decide to share your experiences, having a record of what you've witnessed can help in raising awareness about the harmful dynamics within the community.

 

Therapeutic Assistance: If you're struggling emotionally due to your involvement in this situation, seeking therapy can provide you with tools to cope and strategies to navigate complex feelings.

 

Focus on Self-Care: Prioritize your mental and emotional well-being. Engage in activities that bring you joy and peace, and actively practice self-care to counteract any negative effects.

 

Remember, your safety and well-being should always come first. It's challenging to navigate situations where control and manipulation are present, but seeking external guidance and making decisions that align with your values and health are crucial steps toward finding a way forward.

 

It’s been a year and a half. That’s a lot of time for someone to change his mind, but Leo has not done so. After reading some recent posts on the Actualized.org forum, it seems as though Leo’s stance on these matters are exactly the same as they were the day he banned you. Even I have evolved my viewpoints regarding this whole situation. I wonder why Leo has remained so firm in his convictions.

[Reena]

21 minutes ago, DMT Elf said:

It’s been a year and a half. That’s a lot of time for someone to change his mind, but Leo has not done so. After reading some recent posts on the Actualized.org forum, it seems as though Leo’s stance on these matters are exactly the same as they were the day he banned you. Even I have evolved my viewpoints regarding this whole situation. I wonder why Leo has remained so firm in his convictions.

Because they're a stubborb bull who doesn't change and always the same thing like a brokhen recorhdddd.

[DMT Elf]

45 minutes ago, Reena said:

Because they're a stubborb bull who doesn't change and always the same thing like a brokhen recorhdddd.

It would unfortunately appear so.
Although I am open to the possibility that Leo is the truth which is why his perspective is the longest lasting.

Edited September 3 by DMT Elf

[DMT Elf]

@Robed Mystic

Your opinion on @Phil seems to have flipped in the last year. You used to say that you could tell he was awake, and now you say he isn’t. Could you please explain why you changed your mind on this?

 

for reference:

 

[Rose]

On 8/30/2023 at 8:19 AM, Blessed2 said:

It's been a lot better. There isn't same kind of constant anxiety about scary god-realizations, going insane, solipsism, existential terror etc. anymore. And I feel more connected to people close to me and the society in general. I used to feel like I others weren't awake or didn't know the important stuff I knew. Really I was just brainwashed lol.

Wow.. that’s what I would describe happened to me 😳