Letting go and suppression

[Phil]

19 minutes ago, Someone here said:

My point was if consciousness/reality/existence etc is infinite ..it means

Meaning is appearance. 

19 minutes ago, Someone here said:

it has no limit..so what would stop it from appearing as any possible form? If it only appeared as let's say 200 different universes ..then that would mean it's limited and finite . It has to create /manifest an infinite amount of forms. 

The “it has to” is a belief based on the belief “infinite amount” and “forms” (plural). 

You had asked about why I use the term infinite being, as opposed to infinity, infinite numbers, etc. This is why. Infinite being is not “an infinite amount”. This particular phenomena seems to be something that occurs with psychedelics, which doesn’t with meditation. As always, I recommend the best of both worlds. (But not salvia). Psyche’s which are naturally occurring. 

[Someone here]

@Phil

Psychedelics are like a short cut that show you a different world view than the one you have in your head. They show you that there are multiple worlds outside the one created by your same mind. I was literally "shown " that there are infinite universes inside infinite universes in my last trip on Salvia . It can't be unseen .

Deep mediation is another way to access these worlds but it takes time..daily practice can lead you to wonderful places of which you would not be aware of in normal consciousness..but again it takes time and needs to be done daily. Comes with practice and hard work etc. 

I think meditation is for relaxing the mind not for gaining deep understanding of reality .for that you really "need " Psychedelics. Especially Potent ones that bend your entire fucking world upside down like Salvia .

Edited May 12, 2023 by Someone here

[Blessed2]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

It can't be unseen .

 

It's not "seeing" though. What you describe there is just thoughts, beliefs, conceptualization. It's a philosophy. A metaphysical model. What Phil calls infinite being is not a philosophy or a metaphysical model.

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Deep mediation is another way to access these worlds but it takes time..daily practice can lead you to wonderful places of which you would not be aware of in normal consciousness..but again it takes time and needs to be done daily.

 

Do you have a daily meditation practice? Do you have any direct experience of these things you say about meditation?

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I think meditation is for relaxing the mind not for gaining deep understanding of reality .

 

Understanding reality is delusion.

 

I recommend daily journaling. Clarity is not delusion. Journaling clarifies. And so it will be easier to see how "understanding reality" is actually not even what you want. And why it's not the "point" of this forum.

 

Don't take the suggestion of daily journaling as some spiritual work you or someone has to do. Just journal whatever you're thinking, feeling, what's bumming you out etc. It's actually fun and enjoyable.

 

If I had to choose between psychedelics and journaling, I'd 100% choose journaling. In fact psychedelics without journaling would be a god damn mess. Probably a trip to mental hospital.

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

It's not "seeing" though. What you describe there is just thoughts, beliefs, conceptualization. It's a philosophy. A metaphysical model. What Phil calls infinite being is not a philosophy or a metaphysical model.

What is Infinite being then?

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

Do you have a daily meditation practice? Do you have any direct experience of these things you say about meditation?

I meditate daily for 20 minutes before bed . It just helps relaxing me .I could take a hot bath or drink green tea and it will have the same effect. No insights. No breakthroughs. Just empty and relaxed mind .which feels good and peaceful and all that..but nothing in comparison to psychedelics. 

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

Understanding reality is delusion.

 

I recommend daily journaling. Clarity is not delusion. Journaling clarifies. And so it will be easier to see how "understanding reality" is actually not even what you want. And why it's not the "point" of this forum.

 

Don't take the suggestion of daily journaling as some spiritual work you or someone has to do. Just journal whatever you're thinking, feeling, what's bumming you out etc. It's actually fun and enjoyable.

 

If I had to choose between psychedelics and journaling, I'd 100% choose journaling. In fact psychedelics without journaling would be a god damn mess. Probably a trip to mental hospital.

I tried journaling multiple times .it didn't work .I cringe when I read my own journal.  I have started a journal here but I didn't follow up because it felt like a waste of time .

Meditation can get you to higher states of consciousness but psychedelics are more efficient in doing so.

People that are able to reach such states with meditation.. have been training for many, many years, so they have context when they reach that state. Psychedelic drugs are often called "spiritual theft". They put someone in a state where most have no context whatsoever. So it strikes you and terrifies you. Maybe that's the only down side to it .

[Phil]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

@Phil

Psychedelics are like a short cut that show you a different world view than the one you have in your head. They show you that there are multiple worlds outside the one created by your same mind. I was literally "shown " that there are infinite universes inside infinite universes in my last trip on Salvia . It can't be unseen .

That’s a world view, as you say, inside your head. 

 

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

Deep mediation is another way to access these worlds but it takes time..daily practice can lead you to wonderful places of which you would not be aware of in normal consciousness..but again it takes time and needs to be done daily. Comes with practice and hard work etc. 

I think meditation is for relaxing the mind not for gaining deep understanding of reality .for that you really "need " Psychedelics. Especially Potent ones that bend your entire fucking world upside down like Salvia .

Meditation is clarifying with regard to thought (including imagery) and perception.  A foundation of meditation is clarifying as well.  

[Someone here]

@Phil I meditate. 

[Blessed2]

6 hours ago, Someone here said:

I cringe when I read my own journal. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why?

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why?

Because  I'm not a good writer. 

[Phil]

Another pointing term, like self referential thought, is thought loop(s). 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Because  I'm not a good writer. 

This is a self referential thought. It’s actually impossible that it’s true. 

It might seem like the discord felt is because it’s true, or in simple words - because you’re right.

Essentially, the discord is the knowing.  

22 hours ago, Someone here said:

They show you that there are multiple worlds outside the one created by your same mind. I was literally "shown " that there are infinite universes inside infinite universes in my last trip on Salvia . It can't be unseen .

This is a self referential thought & an experience of thought loops. It’s also impossible that it’s true. It can’t be unseen because it wasn’t seen, it can be let go because it was an experience of thought, of a belief. This discord (suffering) in this case is the same… the knowing that it’s true is actually believing that it is. 

[Someone here]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

This is a self referential thought. It’s actually impossible that it’s true. 

It might seem like the discord felt is because it’s true, or in simple words - because you’re right.

Essentially, the discord is the knowing

I'm probably right though ..you read the shit I post here and previously on actualized..what do you think of my writing? I will never be as eloquent and elegant like you .

The italic font probably is the only negative in your writing.  You overuse it sometimes which can make it harder to understand even if your initial intention is to be more clear. 

3 hours ago, Phil said:

This is a self referential thought & an experience of thought loops. It’s also impossible that it’s true. It can’t be unseen because it wasn’t seen, it can be let go because it was an experience of thought, of a belief. This discord (suffering) in this case is the same… the knowing that it’s true is actually believing that it is. 

Look..this is not debatable. You first go take 200-400 micrograms of Salvia extract and then we talk .

[Blessed2]

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

Because  I'm not a good writer. 

 

The point of journaling isn't to sound nice. It doesn't need to be artsy.

 

You can just write whatever you've been doing and thinking about lately. About your dreams etc.

[Someone here]

@Blessed2 OK thanks for encouragement. I will think this through. Maybe I will start a new journal here .

[Phil]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

I'm probably right though ..you read the shit I post here and previously on actualized..what do you think of my writing? I will never be as eloquent and elegant like you .

The italic font probably is the only negative in your writing.  You overuse it sometimes which can make it harder to understand even if your initial intention is to be more clear. 

Look..this is not debatable. You first go take 200-400 micrograms of Salvia extract and then we talk .

I don’t think it’s coincidental these two matters come up together. Expression in large part is letting go of whatever is discordant.