The Ten Stages of Genocide

[Jonas Long]

4 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

I didn't think i was the imaginary villain.. but he seems to be the one you continue to argue against.. I never saw him or his arguments though. 

I'm asking you/whoever, to examine their concern with perspective.  Some concerns are manufactured.  Or projections. 

[Adeptus Psychonautica]

13 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

Idk, does everybody need to have an opinion on everything? 

Actually, having an opinion on the topic is fine, and that's one thing, but having a strong opinion on it and feeling the need to voice it loudly, when it's about something that isn't likely going to have a direct effect on you ever, but does have an intensely dramatic effect on those in question, might not be necessary.  Does everyone need a passionate opinion and to debate and join in the conversation about people who want various body modifications, elective surgery for whatever reason, experimental replacement limbs, etc?  In other words taking what we could consider fairly drastic measures to change their appearance in a way we might not understand, but is not our business and doesn't effect us.  Why is this particular issue everybody's business and everybody's opinion should hold equal weight?  

 

No everybody does not NEED to have an opinion on everything, but there is nothing wrong with them having an opinion on the things they have an opinion about, particularly when that opinion is invited by posting something in a public forum - the very act of which is inviting opinion. I don't think discussion is ever a bad thing if done in a good faith way. In regard to validity of opinion - who is to say who's opinion is valid? How do you know what my experience is in the trans topic (or anyone else who posted here)? I would propose that we don't all need to disclose our trans credentials before posting, and instead we can just be adults and engage purely based on the merit of what we write.

You earlier stated that you have strong opinions on abortion so much so that you made YouTube videos about it, but it could be argued that its none of your business and so your opinion has no weight. I think that is nonsense and your opinion as is valid as anyone else's and can be judged on its own merit, why would the trans topic be any different? 

 

I think there is something disingenuous about this line of "people shouldn't voice their opinions", because it seems to be applied selectively by people looking to dismiss opinions that differ to their own, but after they have made efforts to voice their own opinion. It seems you were fine with opinions that aligned with your own, even when they were aggressive in tone and validating factual inaccuracies. That kind of mentality will only create echo chambers.

As to why people might have an opinion on this topic - it is because it is having a significant effect on society and as a result there are things which need to be worked out. Those changes are impacting across many cultures, so its not just right wing conservatives having a huff on. If someone like Contrapoints can acknowledge that there are some things to be worked out, then surely even the pro-trans side can recognize that these are valid topics which and should be open to discussion, discussion which isn't going to be resolved by "everyone else should just shut up". 

In regard to body modification then I agree with you to a point, and I certainly agree that once you are an adult then you are free to do what you want with your own body. I think its worth parsing out that there is some considerable difference (at least in my opinion) between cosmetic modification (a nose job) and having your uterus, breasts, or testicles removed because a doctor has told you that doing so will cure your psychological condition - particularly when this is done at an age before someone is fully capable of comprehending the consequences of that surgery. There are enough heart-breaking stories of de-transition out there that its entirely reasonable for people to be scrutinizing what is happening here, and questioning under what circumstances should transition be prescribed. 

[Jonas Long]

It's like, I don't really need to voice my opinion on football(american) even though it's a very integral part of life and society to a whole lot of people.  I think it's barbaric and exploitative and causes a lot of unnecessary pain and injury, the suicide rates of former players from receiving continuous head trauma etc.  But....it's not something that's really in my world directly, so, I'm not going to join in that conversation in any meaningful way.  

Anyway, that's probably enough from me on this for now. 

[Mandy]

Especially because everyone no matter their sex has the right to vote, I think it's ideal that EVERYONE talks about and discusses their point of view. I don't see someone expressing a closed minded point of view as a threat, I see it as a golden opportunity. When conversations are disallowed, or don't happen because there isn't a safe forum for them, that's when they escalate to people attempting to take revenge or to take someone's rights. Or they will just vote for policies and proponents of laws that ban things while remaining completely ignorant about the ramifications. 

[Jonas Long]

35 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Especially because everyone no matter their sex has the right to vote, I think it's ideal that EVERYONE talks about and discusses their point of view. I don't see someone expressing a closed minded point of view as a threat, I see it as a golden opportunity. When conversations are disallowed, or don't happen because there isn't a safe forum for them, that's when they escalate to people attempting to take revenge or to take someone's rights. Or they will just vote for policies and proponents of laws that ban things while remaining completely ignorant about the ramifications. 

I'd probably be more inclined to agree whole heartedly with this sentiment if I hadn't become so cynical about people's capacity to be talked out of their mistaken convictions. 

[Mandy]

@Jonas Long Where did the cynicism start? What's the root of it? 

[Jonas Long]

4 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Jonas Long Where did the cynicism start? What's the root of it? 

An apple?  

[Mandy]

@Jonas Long Apples are a very healing fruit. 

[Jonas Long]

1 minute ago, Mandy said:

@Jonas Long Apples are a very healing fruit. 

That's one way to look at it. 

Another way is that's  what knocked everything out of perfect balance and we are forever dealing with the consequences.  

[Mandy]

@Jonas Long Eat from the tree of life, not the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I don't know what's good for me, just that there isn't one. 

 

 

 

 

[Jonas Long]

Holy shit I just realized apples are red like the pillar of severity on the tree of life which is aligned to the jnana(knowledge based) path of yoga.  Just a side note, probably of interest to nobody else. 

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Jonas Long  I don't know what's good for me, just that there isn't one. 

 

 

 

 

That's a very "bhakti" take, which is fine, but is just the path that exists opposite to "jnana". 

[Mandy]

@Jonas Long Opposites but no opposition. Strange but true story... there's a clairvoyant doctor, who lived in the 1800's and had his summer home mansion just up the hill from where I live. No one knows about it, it's totally hidden. All that's left is the old pink stone granite foundation, this incredible platform with steps up that are flanked by enormous spruce trees, and his apples trees. I read his book after some odd experiences walking past his grave in the cemetery, the book was about how he came to realize his clairvoyance, and his life story. It was a very pivotal time, lots of realizations following. After I read the book I discovered where his mansion had been. A tree on his property hit me with the realization that nonduality, is one and two, there's isn't a conflict, (which is hilarious but still). Months later I had an impulse to google his name meaning and it literally means "apple king". So crazy. None of the apples are red though, mostly green and gold.