Meditation

[Phil]

By every morning, what’s also suggested is starting small and increasing the sit. Loosely speaking that might look like 5 - 10 minutes initially, and increasing to an hour or more. 

 

Why and or why not adopt the practice of meditation?

 

What occurs initially, in the short term, and as well in the longer term of undergoing the practice?

 

What’s the point as you go if you will, and also ultimately speaking? 

 

How is health, wellbeing & alignment related? What are the experiential effects?

 

How does adopting the practice relate to awakening, enlightenment, no mind, cessation, emptiness, effortlessness, consciously creating, fullness and or happiness?

 

Let’s discuss. 

As always, questions welcomed. 

 

[MetaSage]

I see meditation as directed towards healing and setting out to change your state, basically. It increases focus and helps control one's mind. This has many benefits but its purpose isn't questioning with the intent to discover the truth of something, that'd be contemplation. 

 

How could it be practiced day to day without having to sit down or adopt a certain posture?

 

To clarify, meditating is incredibly beneficial and everyone would greatly benefit from it!

 

My distracted mind is struggling with making meditation a daily habit although today I meditated for 15 minutes. 

 

What do you say to people who worry about not knowing how to do meditation? Is there a technique that can be followed? 

 

What I do turns out to be "doing nothing", breath awareness, maybe zazen, although I'm not very clear on what the latter is about.

[Blessed2]

A doctor advises a patient to take prescribed medicine with only one condition. That condition is not to think of a monkey when he takes the medicine.
Can the patient ever take the medicine? Will he not think of the monkey
whenever he tries not to do so?
So also, when people try to give up thoughts their object is frustrated by their very attempt.

 

- Ramana Maharshi

 

On 5/5/2023 at 6:44 PM, Phil said:

Why and or why not adopt the practice of meditation?

 

"Adopting the practice of meditation" is a thought.

 

In my experience, "adopting the practice", making an effort to sit down every morning and seeking the benefits meditation practice is said or assumed to have, brings an experience of frustration, anger, even despair.

 

Or perhaps thoughts about are the source of the frustration, anger and despair.

 

Never had I heard or had any thoughts or trouble with monkey-mind or thought-attachment before I hear about there being such things. I heard about it from youtube channels and books which also talked a lot about silencing the monkey mind with meditation practice. 🤔

 

 

Maybe it's best to notice if / when a thought arises:

 

"I have a monkey mind."

 

"It needs to be silenced."

 

"I should adopt a meditation practice."

 

"If I don't meditate, I will never find inner peace."

 

... And to notice how the thought feels, check direct experience, inspect whether the thought/assumption is true.

 

Perhaps "a meditation practice", or regularly sitting down and bringing focus to breathing is more like an appearance of meditation. 😁

[Pluto]

These days for me I am quite present in my day to day life that I am rarely thinking but rather mindful of the task at hand and there is a meditative quality to my day to day experience but I still highly value short meditations throughout the day. Here is a really nice video I often go back to 🙂

 

 

[Phil]

Just some discussion questions that arise if interested…

 

Can the truth be arrived at via contemplation?

 

Is time more than an activity of thought?  Is mind (finite or infinite) any different?

 

Can not knowing be wrong?  (Is wrong known?)

 

Can what one already doesn’t have therein be given up?

 

Is meditation an efforting, or is efforting the activity of thought which is dispelled meditatively?

 

Can what isn’t actually heard be silenced?

 

Can someone which isn’t do any silencing?

 

Is there something, anything, which is not an appearance via meditation?

 

🤍

[Pluto]

18 hours ago, Phil said:

Just some discussion questions that arise if interested…

 

Can the truth be arrived at via contemplation?

 

Is time more than an activity of thought?  Is mind (finite or infinite) any different?

 

Can not knowing be wrong?  (Is wrong known?)

 

Can what one already doesn’t have therein be given up?

 

Is meditation an efforting, or is efforting the activity of thought which id dispelled meditatively?

 

Can what isn’t actually heard be silenced?

 

Can someone which isn’t do any silencing?

 

Is there something, anything, which is not an appearance via meditation?

 

🤍

I'd like to dance with a few ❤️ I'd say...

 

Truth is everyone, everywhere, everywhen, inevitably unavoidable and totally attainable in any way or means, for it dominates everything else.

The Truth is Realized, reDiscovered, it cannot truly be achieved or attained, it already is.

 

The Mind is infinite, yet infinitely finite.

 

What can be wrong, what is wrong?

 

Meditation is an unefforting 🙂

 

🤍

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Blessed2]

19 hours ago, Phil said:

Can the truth be arrived at via contemplation?

 

Can the truth be arrived at?

 

19 hours ago, Phil said:

Is meditation an efforting, or is efforting the activity of thought which id dispelled meditatively?

 

Is there activity of thought?

[Phil]

On 5/9/2023 at 6:44 AM, Blessed2 said:

Can the truth be arrived at?

Absolute satisfaction, causeless effortless happiness, wholeness, wonder, joy, peace, empowerment, enthusiasm, certainty, decisiveness, intrinsic creativity etc aren’t per se arrived at, as that would be the framing of there being a separate self, and meditation as a means to an end for the separate self to get something. But truth is arrived at in the sense that the activity of thought meditatively settles and truth is un-obscured. 

 

On 5/9/2023 at 6:44 AM, Blessed2 said:

Is there activity of thought?

Yes, apparently / appearance. Creator-Creating-Creation.

[Phil]

Meditation is self.

 

Meditation could be said to be the returning of awareness to awareness.

 

Not as in awareness goes somewhere and returns, but as in awareness is believing interpretation, and this isn’t noticed.

 

Meditation could also rightfully be said to be the non-overlooking, or, the non-believing of arising interpretations.

 

Including the interpretation that meditation could be said to be. 

[Orb]

@Phil what is the most comfortable position to meditate in? 

 

i can only last up to 20 minutes before my legs get numb and uncomfortable.

[Phil]

Just now, Orb said:

my legs get numb

Sit on a proper cushion. If not possible just use a couple pillows instead. 

Put the bottoms of the feet together as opposed to ankles crossed. 

 

Meditation is letting the story go, by returning attention to feeling breathing or a similar technique. Attention is therein on other-than-thoughts, including subject object narrative about a meditator. 

[Orb]

@Phil bottoms of the feet together huh, like a butterfly? 

 

I want to meditate for 1 hour every morning and night before I go to bed. 

 

I find that 20 minutes isn't enough to really settle into stillness, by the end of the 20 mins it feels like I'm just beginning to go deep. 

[Blessed2]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Meditation could be said to be the returning of awareness to awareness.

 

For me it seems that there is at least three significant types of meditation:

 

- Focus on an object, like breathing, sound, visualizing/feeling energy (this is sometines called "progressive path" I think)

 

- Focus on the sense of I (self-inquiry)

 

- Being aware of being aware (direct path?)

 

I find it interesting how the first one, focus on an object, feels like "forgetting". But the last one, being aware of being aware, is like the opposite of forgetting.

 

Anything come to mind about what I'm talking about here?

 

Isn't being aware of being aware different from focusing on breath etc?

[Phil]

@Blessed2

In each case the focus in on other-than thoughts. 

 

With concentration meditation, focus is returned from thought to an object. It’s ideally as the allowing of the already underway effortless concentration of consciousness. The ‘practice’ isn’t a doing or ann increasing of concentration or consciousness per se, but is (by default of returning attention from thought to a single object) the unfettering of the subject object activity of thought. Essentially a letting go of the notion  held of ‘my concentration’, ‘my consciousness’. It’s astounding… the diagnosis and medications invented to ‘fix’ ‘my concentration’, in the overlooking of the subject object thought narrative which obscures naturally occurring concentration. 

 

The ‘sense of I’ is such a tricky statement, isn’t it? Depends on the notion, connotation, interpretation, how it’s ‘held’. Sense could be taken to point to the senses as in perception, or sensation, or even the ‘sense of the separate self’ (?). With Self Inquiry ‘the feeling of being me’ seems clearer & more direct. Again though, it’s at the exclusion of all arising thoughts / the returning of attention / awareness back onto itself, feeling. 

 

Being aware of being aware is so direct it’s not even direct really, more so un-directed, simply what is, what’s looked for & longed for, which is looking & longing. One must be careful with this though as it can get deeply humorous very quickly. 

[Phil]

Benefits of meditation

 

Meditation can give you a sense of calm, peace and balance that can benefit both your emotional well-being and your overall health. You can also use it to relax and cope with stress by refocusing your attention on something calming. Meditation can help you learn to stay centered and keep inner peace. And these benefits don't end when your meditation session ends. Meditation can help carry you more calmly through your day. And meditation may help you manage symptoms of certain medical conditions.

 

Meditation and emotional and physical well-being: When you meditate, you may clear away the information overload that builds up every day and contributes to your stress.

 

The emotional and physical benefits of meditation can include:

• Gaining a new perspective on stressful situations
• Building skills to manage your stress
• Increasing self-awareness
• Focusing on the present
• Reducing negative emotions
• Increasing imagination and creativity
• Increasing patience and tolerance
• Lowering resting heart rate
• Lowering resting blood pressure
• Improving sleep quality
• Meditation and illness

Meditation might also be useful if you have a medical condition, especially one that may be worsened by stress. While a growing body of scientific research supports the health benefits of meditation, some researchers believe it's not yet possible to draw conclusions about the possible benefits of meditation. 

 

With that in mind, some research suggests that meditation may help people manage symptoms of conditions such as:

• Anxiety
• Asthma
• Cancer
• Chronic pain
• Depression
• Heart disease
• High blood pressure
• Irritable bowel syndrome
• Sleep problems
• Tension headaches

 

Meditation has been practiced for thousands of years. Meditation originally was meant to help deepen understanding of the sacred and mystical forces of life. These days, meditation is commonly used for relaxation and stress reduction.

 

Meditation is considered a type of mind-body complementary medicine. Meditation can produce a deep state of relaxation and a tranquil mind.

During meditation, you focus your attention and eliminate the stream of jumbled thoughts that may be crowding your mind and causing stress. This process may result in enhanced physical and emotional well-being.

 

“The world is afflicted by death and decay. But the wise do not grieve, having realized the nature of the world.”

-The Enlightened One. 

[Phil]

One of the clearest interviews / videos on meditation. 

[Phil]

Arguably & apparently an interesting fact about meditation:

 

Meditation stands to reveal that the activity of thought is - the activity of thought.

 

Therein, that there is no “true thought”… at all, whatsoever… as there is but one ‘substance’.

 

It’s only the activity of thought, or perhaps the believing of thoughts which could make it - whatever it is believed to be, seem to the exception or to the contrary.

 

That “it” is most likely and almost always - you… believed not to be the one ‘substance’. 

 

Thus, while there are obviously pointers, information about techniques etc - nothing said about meditation can ever actually be true about meditation, without exception. 

 

Also, and possibly far more relevant - there is nothing, without exception, which can ever be said to be true about the so called ‘one substance’. 

 

It is the so called ‘one substance’ which awakens, or, is enlightenment. (Not a “you”, as in a person, human, self, etc - the activity of thoughts.) 

 

The ‘one substance’ is absolute without any conditions. Conditions are the activity of thought. 

[Phil]

No mind, like cessation, is not a state (of consciousness).

States of consciousness is the activity of thought, about consciousness. 

Thus to deceive & manipulate, to ‘hide’ the truth as it pertains to meditation; no mind and cessation are referred to as - states (of consciousness). 

 

States of consciousness is preceded by an underlying belief one is a separate self. 

The knower of, states of consciousness. 

 

In accordance with direct experience;

There is no knowing of or knower of awareness / consciousness. 

Awareness / consciousness is always prior… aware / conscious of… the thoughts about knowing and or a knower and or what’s known. 

 

[Devin]

👏

[Phil]

Meditation, as in allowing the activity of thought to come to rest, is always the answer, because the implied separation is always the content of thoughts. 

The implied separation is what’s felt, and the trickyness of thought is the implication (content) there is someone feeling or meditating.