Seeing horrible things

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, Rose said:

Yes

What’s an example of a thing which is known to be separate from reality? 

Whatever that thing may be, how is it known that it is separate from reality?

Did you leave reality, and verify this? 

How is it known, there are things separate from reality? 

Is reality known in the first place, such that there can then be a thing which is known as separate? 

[Rose]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

What’s an example of a thing which is known to be separate from reality? 

Whatever that thing may be, how is it known that it is separate from reality?

Did you leave reality, and verify this? 

How is it known, there are things separate from reality? 

Is reality known in the first place, such that there can then be a thing which is known as separate? 

Not breathing and remaining alive would be an example which is not part of the reality 

 

Jumping from a tall building and remaining alive is another example 

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

What’s an example of a thing which is known to be separate from reality? 

Whatever that thing may be, how is it known that it is separate from reality?

6 minutes ago, Rose said:

Not breathing and remaining alive would be an example which is not part of the reality 

Is it known, that there is, “not breathing and remaining alive”… and that “not breathing and remaining alive” is, but is not, part of reality? 

 

 

[Rose]

18 minutes ago, Phil said:

Is it known, that there is, “not breathing and remaining alive”… and that “not breathing and remaining alive” is, but is not, part of reality? 

 

 

There is no such thing as not breathing and remaining alive. It’s known to be impossible. 

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, Rose said:

It’s known

 

25 minutes ago, Phil said:

Is it known, that there is, “not breathing and remaining alive”…

 

and that “not breathing and remaining alive” is, but is not, part of reality? 

 

[Rose]

 

@Phil in simple human terms, what are you trying to say? 

[Phil]

There isn’t something else which I’m trying to say.

Honestly.

 

This is English, this is simple human terms. 

 

33 minutes ago, Rose said:

There is no such thing as not breathing and remaining alive. It’s known to be impossible. 

Is “not breathing and remaining alive” something which is known? 

 

[Phil]

In more relatable terminology..

 

What is the most fundamental difference in spiral dynamics between tier 1 and tier 2?

 

What is the absolute and relative truth fallacy?

 

When something is said to be known, and or understood, what is the actuality of that experience?

 

[Rose]

35 minutes ago, Phil said:

What is the most fundamental difference in spiral dynamics between tier 1 and tier 2?

That tier one can not comprehend other perspectives? 
 

35 minutes ago, Phil said:

What is the absolute and relative truth fallacy?

Are you saying that not breathing and therefore dying is the absolute truth?

 

38 minutes ago, Phil said:

When something is said to be known, and or understood, what is the actuality of that experience?

That it’s their perspective and most likely not absolute truth? 

 

 

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Rose said:

That tier one can not comprehend other perspectives? 

Tier one is conformity (‘thinking’), tier two is not.

Put another way, tier one is identification as the thinker, and is therein egocentric, whereas tier 2 is not. 

 

5 minutes ago, Rose said:

Are you saying that not breathing and therefore dying is the absolute truth?

No. I’m pointing out tier 1 believes what’s heard. Facts etc. but it’s tricky, because spiral dynamics is just something that’s heard.

More so, assumptions which are believed, only seem like something known until examined and compared with direct experience.

(Like the content of the op.)

 

9 minutes ago, Rose said:

That it’s their perspective and most likely not absolute truth? 

That would not be the actuality, that would be an assumption. The actuality of what’s experienced would be denial, which isn’t seeable through ‘denial tinted glasses’.

 

Aversion is otherwise referred to as deflection and projection.

Differences, fallacies, conflation, knowing, understanding, spiral dynamics and denial are the activity of thought, and therein are deflection and projection (conceptualizing).

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/the-ten-ox-herding-pictures

 

The only relevant question is, are you experiencing suffering.

 

I asked about these…

50 minutes ago, Phil said:

What is the absolute and relative truth fallacy?

 

When something is said to be known, and or understood, what is the actuality of that experience?

Because conjecture stands out readily to the truth, like a camel in your living room no one else notices.

[Mandy]

@Rose Do you believe that there something scary, naïve or vulnerable about being happy? 

[Rose]

@Phil I’ll read the article, I’ll have to think about it some more, because I am still not fully getting what you’re getting at

Edited April 27, 2023 by Rose

[Rose]

17 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Rose Do you believe that there something scary, naïve or vulnerable about being happy? 

No, but I worry that if I am happy something bad will happen. Although the war is pretty bad already.

 

Although I guess, it’s a “yes” then, I am scared of  being happy. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by Rose

[Mandy]

@Rose As an intention moving forward, do you want to perpetuate that or just let yourself be happy? 

[Rose]

On 4/27/2023 at 2:43 PM, Mandy said:

@Rose As an intention moving forward, do you want to perpetuate that or just let yourself be happy? 

I do want to let myself be happy. But why are  you asking this? 

[Mandy]

@Rose Frankly it's a WORLD of difference, that intention recognized will trigger an apocalypse. 

 

Do you really want to let yourself be happy?

 

Really? 

 

 

[Phil]

@Rose

If you were sitting on the couch watching a movie and there was aliveness and happiness happening in the movie… is the aliveness and happiness properties of the characters… which are light, which is the screen… or is there an experience of an assumption that the happiness and aliveness is a property of the characters?

 

Are there actually characters in the movie, or is that the movie too (which is light of the screen)?

 

Is there actually an experience of someone sitting on a couch, or is there an experience of thoughts about there being someone sitting on a couch?

If there are only thoughts about someone sitting on the couch, and isn’t someone sitting on the couch, then happiness and aliveness aren’t properties of someone sitting on a couch. 

 

[Rose]

On 6/20/2023 at 7:44 AM, Phil said:

 

Is there actually an experience of someone sitting on a couch,

If I am sitting on a couch then there is an experience of me sitting on the coach. It’s not just my thoughts that I am sitting on the couch, it’s also my senses which makes it an actual experience.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Rose

[Phil]

10 hours ago, Rose said:

If I am sitting on a couch then there is an experience of me sitting on the coach.

🙂 For there to be an experience of you (sitting on the couch) would require two you’s. The one experiencing you and the you that is experienced. 

(“The one” who’s been exposed, the one who needs to recover, the one which damage has been done to long term, the one who could be a loving human being, the one for whom there are dumb ignorant people, the one who has hate, the one who will die & for whom other people deserve death, is thoughts.)

10 hours ago, Rose said:

It’s not just my thoughts that I am sitting on the couch, it’s also my senses which makes it an actual experience.

My thoughts and my senses are thoughts which make it seem like there is a separate self… separate from, and in possession of… thought & senses. 

If there’s never been an un-actual experience, how could one really know there is actual experience? 

 

Seer, seeing, knower, knowing, these are the activity of mind.

Where is this mind?