James123 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mandy said: Just listen the silence, it will lead you. What comes as Love, listen it. Much love. Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Mandy said: @James123 👍 Well that's easy with Rumi. 🙂Not just meaning positive resonance, being unconditionally grateful and receptive, recognizing the mirror, appreciating the contrast. "The people who trigger us the most are our greatest teachers", that kinda thing. Well, wouldn't being "unconditionally grateful" fall into the "positive" category? Appreciating the contrast is a bit much, if your goal is to maintain the receptive and grateful attitude...not saying it can't be done, but, that's like, for the saints if you ask me...that means appreciation and gratitude for war, poverty, starvation, ingrown hairs, cancer, running out of toothpaste and forgetting to buy more... Edited March 14, 2023 by Lester Retsel Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said: running out of toothpaste and forgetting to buy more... Is this a personal example? It sounds like one. My condolences. 4 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said: Well, wouldn't being "unconditionally grateful" fall into the "positive" category? Appreciating the contrast is a bit much, if your goal is to maintain the receptive and grateful attitude...not saying it can't be done, but, that's like, for the saints if you ask me...that means appreciation and gratitude for war, poverty, starvation, ingrown hairs, cancer, running out of toothpaste and forgetting to buy more... No, it's not for saints, because if you're feeling disappointment or despair, you're feeling the guidance of those emotions. In the appreciation of the feeling guidance, you turn to what is wanted. War makes our desire for peace crystal freaking clear, poverty makes our desire for abundance crystal clear, etc. As for ingrown hairs and cancer, have you looked into Louise Hay's work? She seems so sweet and loving, but boy does she get straight to the response-ability of the matter. She also had cancer by the way. All pain whether emotional or physical is guidance. They aren't two separate categories even. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mandy said: As for ingrown hairs and cancer, have you looked into Louise Hay's work? She seems so sweet and loving, but boy does she get straight to the response-ability of the matter. She also had cancer by the way. All pain whether emotional or physical is guidance. They aren't two separate categories even. I'm not nearly there yet...I'm not ready to touch the people-being-responsible-for-their-own-cancer/disease thing yet with a ten foot pole Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said: I'm not nearly there yet...I'm not ready to touch the people-being-responsible-for-their-own-cancer/disease thing yet with a ten foot pole You're there. It's not responsible cause no separate selves to be responsible or irresponsible, it's response-able. Response-ability is healing. Listening to the message instead of slapping a label on it and trying to get it to forcefully go away. Can't respond if you don't first listen. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mandy said: You're there. It's not responsible cause no separate selves to be responsible or irresponsible, it's response-able. Response-ability is healing. Listening to the message instead of slapping a label on it and trying to get it to forcefully go away. Can't respond if you don't first listen. But ability to heal implies a failure if they don't. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Mandy said: War makes our desire for peace crystal freaking clear, poverty makes our desire for abundance crystal clear, etc. The key word you've used is "desire", which means youre still using a duality within the premise Edited March 14, 2023 by Lester Retsel Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 @Lester Retsel Does it imply a failure if there's no separate self with the power to do or not do? Does it imply a failure if it's all life energy, recycling and renewing, transforming, never becoming any pinnacle or grand achievement of creation? If I die of illness, plant me under an apple tree and I'll feed the worms and the deer that visit me in the cemetery. If life is already eternal, what can be lost in order to occur failure to save it? In the desperate attempt to save my life or grasp at life I'll lose it. If I'm like "screw it, lets have some fun, see what happens and also appreciate the ineffable miracle of it" simultaneously it really doesn't matter what happens to me. It doesn't matter enough for me to feel ill at ease about death. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 1 minute ago, Lester Retsel said: The key word you've used is "desire", which means youre still using a duality within the premise Desire is like focus, it's like driving a car, you look ahead to where you're going, where you desire to go. The duality that goes beyond creation and implies suffering is when we don't believe or contradict our desires. "I'd like to have more friends but I can't because I have anxiety." It's like hitting the gas and the brake at the same time, which is REALLY, REALLY BAD FOR YOUR CAR! But if I look at where I want to go, "I enjoy being around this person, maybe I'll ask her to go hiking with me." Then I'm not contradicting my desire. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mandy said: @Lester Retsel Does it imply a failure if there's no separate self with the power to do or not do? Does it imply a failure if it's all life energy, recycling and renewing, transforming, never becoming any pinnacle or grand achievement of creation? If I die of illness, plant me under an apple tree and I'll feed the worms and the deer that visit me in the cemetery. If life is already eternal, what can be lost in order to occur failure to save it? In the desperate attempt to save my life or grasp at life I'll lose it. If I'm like "screw it, lets have some fun, see what happens and also appreciate the ineffable miracle of it" simultaneously it really doesn't matter what happens to me. It doesn't matter enough for me to feel ill at ease about death. In theory, talking about it, it's one thing, but when it comes to directly experiencing those things, it may not be so easy...or maybe it will for you idk. Again, not there yet personally Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Mandy said: Desire is like focus, it's like driving a car, you look ahead to where you're going, where you desire to go. The duality that goes beyond creation and implies suffering is when we don't believe or contradict our desires. "I'd like to have more friends but I can't because I have anxiety." It's like hitting the gas and the brake at the same time, which is REALLY, REALLY BAD FOR YOUR CAR! But if I look at where I want to go, "I enjoy being around this person, maybe I'll ask her to go hiking with me." Then I'm not contradicting my desire. Again, maybe you haven't had direct experience of anxiety. I can tell you, it's not as simple as that, for me, when it's happening. Edited March 14, 2023 by Lester Retsel Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mandy said: It's like hitting the gas and the brake at the same time, which is REALLY, REALLY BAD FOR YOUR CAR! What if what's good for the car isn't what's good for you in your life, and you destroy the car,.and your life improves? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Mandy said: . "I'd like to have more friends but I can't because I have anxiety." ..."friends" implies other people also...which is fine, but then when it comes around to your friend getting cancer, being responsible for healing themselves, is where it gets weird for me... or is is your responsibility to heal them, and then what it they don't heal...ya know? Edited March 14, 2023 by Lester Retsel Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said: In theory, talking about it, it's one thing, but when it comes to directly experiencing those things, it may not be so easy...or maybe it will for you idk. Again, not there yet personally You'll never get there personally, that's the idea. I'm not there personally. There's no getting there. That's the relief in it. 4 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said: Again, maybe you haven't had direct experience of anxiety. I can tell you, it's not as simple as that, for me, when it's happening. 2 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said: What if what's good for the car isn't what's good for you in your life, and you destroy the car,.and your life improves? I live in the boonies and I have dealt with horrible driving anxiety in cities and new situations. Love driving at home, not anywhere else. My mom grew up like I did, and never learned to drive in cities, no one modeled or exposed me to city driving. My dad was too busy to drive me 2 hours to the city to be able to practice. It bothers me a lot that I can't just go where I want to go. So, after realizing some stuff about fear and anxiety, I started focusing on what I wanted, but not in a way to force it into being, which was my first inclination. I learned to merge onto the interstate for the first time a couple years ago when my husband's car started having major issues and he found a convertible Mustang across the state that was a great deal and we bought it and I had to drive four hours home alone. The car I had written on the dream board not only came about but also challenged me to do what I wanted to do too. Later we had planned a trip and he had to work in the car the entire time, so I drove. At the start of the trip I felt a powerful resonance with that car, which wasn't hard because I already liked it a lot, but it was really wonderful like a knowing. And on that trip I got to drive on the interstate through the mountains, it was the most incredible trip. The energy unleashed in anxiety is always moving forward in the most inviting of ways, not destructive. The body regenerates. The body is forgiving. Cars are far more inflexible. No analogy is perfect. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 10 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said: ..."friends" implies other people also...which is fine, but then when it comes around to your friend getting cancer, being responsible for healing them, or healing themselves, is where it gets weird for me You can't create in the experience of another but you can love and you can focus and you can focus your love, all the same really. My friend attracted something I first thought was really annoying and awful, and something I really wouldn't want yesterday but the universe sent me a sign that I have no f-ing clue what she wants, and she probably does really want this, even if she doesn't know it yet. I have to know her well being unconditionally if I want to feel good and if I want to be of any assistance whatsoever to her or anyone else. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, Mandy said: You'll never get there personally, that's the idea. I'm not there personally. There's no getting there. That's the relief in it. well as long as that's the case, i guess i agree... it's hard to get around assigning value to things. like back to the farmer/horse story, what if car trouble results in getting a ride with someone who then provides you with your dream job...or what if war is what is required for humanity to evolve Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 Just now, Lester Retsel said: well as long as that's the case, i guess i agree... it's hard to get around assigning value to things. like back to the farmer/horse story, what if car trouble results in getting a ride with someone who then provides you with your dream job...or what if war is what is required for humanity to evolve Yeah, it's just a journey that doesn't go anywhere. Intuition leads you to what you want when you don't need to know where it's going. Intuition is really annoying, and sometimes even scary or horrifying when you need to know where it's going. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Long Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 12 minutes ago, Mandy said: My friend attracted something I first thought was really annoying and awful, and something I really wouldn't want yesterday but the universe sent me a sign that I have no f-ing clue what she wants, and she probably does really want this, even if she doesn't know it yet. I have to know her well being unconditionally if I want to feel good and if I want to be of any assistance whatsoever to her or anyone else. i hope you're not talking about her having a baby... 😝 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 @Lester Retsel 😆Nope, she's moving to a climate I would never want to live in, thousands of miles away from home and family on a secluded island without road or bridge access. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaSage Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Lester Retsel said: "undeserving" by default? we hold a bottom line belief about ourselves about being fundamentally unworthy of life. Perhaps. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.