Actualized.org and Leo Gura must be stopped

[sacredprofane]

12 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

It might sound that way. But you don't know for sure.  Do you.  No, you don't.  Look, I can appreciate your skepticism - I really can.  And you do seem somewhat open minded.  You did listen to the metaphysical stuff.   So what gives?  What's your stance on materialism vs idealism, taking Leo out of it because he is completely insignificant.   And  there's no selves.

i mean, look at what i wrote earlier in the thread, i said why i think leo is problematic, and i do think he is, or whatever this thing is thats sprung up around him

[Robed Mystic]

2 minutes ago, sacredprofane said:

i mean, look at what i wrote earlier in the thread, i said why i think leo is problematic, and i do think he is, or whatever this thing is thats sprung up around him

I didn't disagree with there being problems.  But people have to take responsibility for who they place their trust in as well.  

Edited February 21, 2023 by Robed Mystic

[sacredprofane]

6 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

I didn't disagree with there being problems.  But people have to take responsibility for who they place their trust in as well.  

but he KNOWS he is preying on people in fragile states.  for that, HE needs to be held accountable.  IMO

[Robed Mystic]

7 minutes ago, sacredprofane said:

but he KNOWS he is preying on people in fragile states.  for that, HE needs to be held accountable.  IMO

I I don't feel he's a predator or doing anything intentionally in that regard.  On the forum his ego shines but so do all of ours.  He could definitely clean that up and I think he is trying to do that.    We have disclaimers about spirituality and mental illnesses.   If you are not stable or in a good place in life we do not recommend you pursue spirituality.   He has stated that many times.  If one is not grounded to seek help first before absorbing anything on Actualized.   Spirituality, as you may or may not know, is serious business. 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Robed Mystic

[sacredprofane]

10 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

I I don't feel he's a predator or doing anything intentionally in that regard.  On the forum his ego shines but so do all of ours.  He could definitely clean that up and I think he is trying to do that.    We have disclaimers about spirituality and mental illnesses.   If you are not stable or in a good place in life we do not recommend you pursue spirituality.   He has stated that many times.  If one is not grounded to seek help first before absorbing anything on Actualized.   Spirituality, as you may or may not know, is serious business. 

 

 

lol, the disclaimer is for legal purposes, obviously, so he can't get in trouble, but he himself obviously has no qualms encouraging clearly unwell people to be on his forum watch his videos and buy his course!  the VAST majority of commenters and forum members are VERY observably not well, and if he really cared he would tell them personally not to be on the forum or watch his videos or buy his course.  it is 100% pure bullshit to say that he actually is concerned with the mental well being of those he takes money from.  to think otherwise, you gotta blind.  did you even READ what @Cupcakewrote?  she TOLD him she was having mental health issues.  he obviously knew that about her, and others for a long time, and didn't advise them to leave or take a break from him in any way.  he just bans people when they piss him off.

Edited February 21, 2023 by sacredprofane

[Robed Mystic]

10 minutes ago, sacredprofane said:

lol, the disclaimer is for legal purposes, obviously, so he can't get in trouble, but he himself obviously has no qualms encouraging clearly unwell people to be on his forum watch his videos and buy his course!  the VAST majority of commenters and forum members are VERY observably not well, and if he really cared he would tell them personally not to be on the forum or watch his videos or buy his course.  it is 100% pure bullshit to say that he actually is concerned with the mental well being of those he takes money from.  to think otherwise, you gotta blind.

Not true I've seen him tell people on the forum.   You gotta remember he is running a business and is not going to sort through every one of his listeners to see if they are stable enough to handle the stuff there.  That would be too much to ask from anyone.   No..I'm not buying it.   I only have a few qualms with Leo.   We differ slightly on. certain metaphysical topics - and some of the behavior on the forum.  As for the content - again- if you are unstable to begin with it could really go sideways really fast - but he cannot really track this nor in my opinion should he have to.   

Edited February 21, 2023 by Robed Mystic

[sacredprofane]

11 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Not true I've seen him tell people on the forum.   You gotta remember he is running a business and is not going to sort through every one of his listeners to see if they are stable enough to handle the stuff there.  That would be too much to ask from anyone.   No..I'm not buying it.   I only have a few qualms with Leo.   We differ slightly on. certain metaphysical topics - and some of the behavior on the forum.  As for the content - again- if you are unstable to begin with it could really go sideways really fast - but he cannot really track this nor in my opinion should he have to.   

he is SO far off from any normal ethical persons way of operating, that it is scary.   if he WANTS to take on the mantel he has, he absolutely needs to track where people are at.   any professional therapist would easily lose their license if they behaved the way leo does with their clients.  if he were selling ANYTHING besides "enlightenment" NOBODY would stand for the way he acts and treats people.  they only put up with it because they feel "enlightenment" may be worth the abuse, or that the abuse is somehow part of the teachings.  your radar is way off man, but it's probably because youve been gradually inoculated.  THATS WHAT HE DOES.  look at his views on women, of COURSE he believes manipulation of people is a means to an end.  You cannot be a highly evolved human being and do pickup in las vegas CONSTANTLY.  you just can't.

Edited February 21, 2023 by sacredprofane

[Phil]

@Robed Mystic

If “you” are unstable.

It’s never the content, the material, the missteps, the egoic reactions, the impatience, the misinformation, the misunderstanding, the misleading, the deception, the misguidance, the ignorance, the delusion. 

 

It’s always……… “you”. 

That just doesn’t sound like a teacher of unconditional love.

Or as you said much more simply, it’s a business. 

 

You keep pointing this out to the owner of that business, and mark my words, you’ll be banned for it. 

Actually, that would be some semblance of integrity. 

Rather, a thread will be made about you to degrade and demean you, to brainwash everyone else. 

And they won’t even notice. They’ll take it at face value, based on trust. 

 

And so to speak, you, and everything you don’t stand for, are the very evidence of this.

 

I triple dog dare you to absolutely literally not even look at that website for three months. Just to see what the direct experience is like. 

I got fifty bucks and Cash App that says you’ll be glad, and most appreciative. 

You win either way. 

What say you?

 

 

[Robed Mystic]

7 minutes ago, sacredprofane said:

he is SO far off from any normal ethical persons way of operating, that it is scary.   if he WANTS to take on the mantel he has, he absolutely needs to track where people are at.   any professional therapist would easily lose their license if they behaved the way leo does with their clients.  if he were selling ANYTHING besides "enlightenment" NOBODY would stand for the way he acts and treats people.  they only put up with it because they feel "enlightenment" may be worth the abuse, or that the abuse is somehow part of the teachings.  your radar is way off man, but it's probably because youve been gradually inoculated.  THATS WHAT HE DOES.  look at his views on women, of COURSE he believes manipulation of people is a means to an end.  You cannot be a highly evolved human being and do pickup in las vegas CONSTANTLY.  you just can't.

That's just it.  He isn't selling anything.   The videos are free for you to listen to.  The only thing he sells is the one course.  I think the book list is a one time purchase.

It is not the same as a therapist at all.  It is open stuff out there on the internet and it happens to he very serious stuff that could get one in a very bad state - but that is SPIRITUALITY in general - not Leo.  Because I can tell you from direct experience that you will die if you go far enough.   Again- not Leo..spirituality.  I think the issue you have is the you tube open format.  And you're right - since this is serious stuff perhaps it should be only available in a monastery where folks can be vetted.  But again this isn't Leo's fault it would fall on You Tube and it's censorship.    As for what you are calling abuse - yeah I agree where I don't like where he talks down or has talked down to listeners.  If you have spent any time there you will know I told him so about that.   But it won't change any time soon.   But if he wants to feel like he's the most awake guy on the planet let him.  The content is still excellent and you don't need him nor do you need the forum.  The forum is just an extra people don't even have to log in to that at all - and most dont.

.

[Phil]

15 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

That's just it.  He isn't selling anything.   

The .org can be confusing, but it is in fact, as you said, a for profit business. There are products being sold. 

 

Three months. Not one or two. Three.

But not one glance, no videos, not a single forum ‘check in’. 

 

This could be yours brother. Easiest fiddy ya ever make. 

 

🙂

 

 

[sacredprofane]

14 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

That's just it.  He isn't selling anything.   The videos are free for you to listen to.  The only thing he sells is the one course.  I think the book list is a one time purchase.

It is not the same as a therapist at all.  It is open stuff out there on the internet and it happens to he very serious stuff that could get one in a very bad state - but that is SPIRITUALITY in general - not Leo.  Because I can tell you from direct experience that you will die if you go far enough.   Again- not Leo..spirituality.  I think the issue you have is the you tube open format.  And you're right - since this is serious stuff perhaps it should be only available in a monastery where folks can be vetted.  But again this isn't Leo's fault it would fall on You Tube and it's censorship.    As for what you are calling abuse - yeah I agree where I don't like where he talks down or has talked down to listeners.  If you have spent any time there you will know I told him so about that.   But it won't change any time soon.   But if he wants to feel like he's the most awake guy on the planet let him.  The content is still excellent and you don't need him nor do you need the forum.  The forum is just an extra people don't even have to log in to that at all - and most dont.

.

yeah, you are wrong, he is the owner of a business called actualized, of COURSE he is selling something.  again, you've been inoculated, so you don't see how strange it is.  It isn't leo's fault that he chooses to put out what he does and make money off of it?  it's not his fault that a system exists that allows him to do it?  i really have nothing left to say to you on this.

[Robed Mystic]

27 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Robed Mystic

If “you” are unstable.

It’s never the content, the material, the missteps, the egoic reactions, the impatience, the misinformation, the misunderstanding, the misleading, the deception, the misguidance, the ignorance, the delusion. 

 

 

Have you ever see the movie Central intelligence?

Well - the rock stated "those are very angry words coming from a very angry man.  Maybe you should get that looked at by a trained professional." 🙂

 

Just kidding.   

 

But I will have to differ with you on those viewpoints.    That is your perspective and you are entitled to that.   Leo as a person is a different story.  But again, this is the internet it is not a monastery.  It's an online community.   Don't get me wrong, I like what you are doing here but you also have to be wary of the same dangers as him.   I only was on one zoom call but I do hope you encourage your followers to discover what is true for themselves.   Not to take what you say on faith.

We do that there, and we do it big time.   To not take anything as dogma or belief, or to turn it into a religion.   You stated on the call that you felt i was speaking dogma, but keep in mind I could say the same about you.   You will have to be specific on where the misinformation lies and perhaps we could have a discussion on that.   

33 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Robed Mystic

 

You keep pointing this out to the owner of that business, and mark my words, you’ll be banned for it. 

Actually, that would be some semblance of integrity. 

Rather, a thread will be made about you to degrade and demean you, to brainwash everyone else. 

And they won’t even notice. They’ll take it at face value, based on trust. 

 

 

 

I guess you haven't visited in a while.  I did way worse than this.  And had a private talk with Leo about it after he messaged me.  You see the reason I'm still a mod there is not because of my opinions of him as a person- it is that I support the content in the episodes.    And guess what?  If I were to get banned, that is fine too.   Trust me, I put him in his place in the worst way but we are fine.  And sometimes that's what a friend needs.  If I saw something about you that I thought could have a damaging impact on your followers, I would make you aware of it.   

 

38 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Robed Mystic

 

 

 

I triple dog dare you to absolutely literally not even look at that website for three months. Just to see what the direct experience is like. 

I got fifty bucks and Cash App that says you’ll be glad, and most appreciative. 

You win either way. 

What say you?

 

 

That seems to be a bit of mind control coming from you now - not him- in a very subtle way.   

 

[Reena]

1 hour ago, Robed Mystic said:

I didn't disagree with there being problems.  But people have to take responsibility for who they place their trust in as well.  

This is utter bullshit.  Do you even understand a teacher/guru student relationship? It's supposed to be a sacred relationship in spirituality. It's obviously based in trust. If trust doesn't exist, then why will a person even bother to listen to a teacher in the first place? They listen because they intrinsically believe (which is trust) that the person who they're looking up to wants their best interests. This is not a boss employee relationship for the employee to always be on the edge . You're the kind of guy who would most likely blame a woman for being in an abusive relationship, which justifies you being an Actualized mod, because Leo literally does the same, you're sure you aren't a programmed bot working for Leo and shilling really hard on this forum for him? 

Leo is trying to win people's trust by engaging them in a more personal way. He himself says plenty of times "I don't want you to break my trust. " What does that mean then? Why is he putting trust in his followers if this is not a question of trust ? And what sort of business doesn't run on trust?  Shady businesses? 

I mean can you seriously run a company like Apple and sell an IPhone and it stops working and your typical response is -"why did you trust our product and invest in it? " Do you think Apple will continue to exist if they did that? No. They have to value the trust of their consumers and customers and that's how businesses exist. Trust is a two way street. You cannot have a business owner who wants to win the trust  of his buyers and wants to be able to trust them to not destroy his business meanwhile he takes liberty at breaking their trust at will. 

Leo Gura is already shady by turning spirituality into a business because he has taken something sacred and making money off of it. That's already dirty enough. On top of it, if you say that he is running a business, then he probably should know better about how to run a business because even businesses run on trust of their consumers, big time. The business cannot abuse the trust of their consumers, in fact they're supposed to value it. 

Leo is not running a business, he is running a hustle. And a hustle doesn't involve any moral principles or values or trust or integrity. A hustle is only meant to benefit the seller alone. The buyer simply doesn't exist. Only their money does.

 

For Leo Gura, only ego, fame,image, reputation and money matters like a typical greedy narcissist. He doesn't give a damn about the mental health of his followers. He will give the typical responses that you get to hear in shady businesses like "this is not charity, " "You shouldn't trust me, " "You're doing this to yourself. " Meanwhile evading all responsibility himself. 

In fact, it's the opposite. Not only is he responsible for people's mental health, like any other business owner who is responsible for the safety of their customers, he is even more responsible because he is running a business around a sensitive field like soirituality that attracts vulnerable people in huge numbers. It's like the difference between a business owner and a pastor. The pastor has even more moral and ethical responsibility than a business owner since religion attracts needy, suffering, vulnerable people who place their trust in the goodness of the pastor presuming that he is a holy man who won't do wrong things. Thus the pastor has a higher moral responsibility in comparison to some businessman. Just like we don't expect doctors to take people's lives. 

Leo cannot have the best of both worlds - he cannot want the unquestioning loyalty, trust and faith of his followers like some highly revered pastor on one hand and ditch those followers like a ruthless businessman whenever it suits him on the other. He wants the benefits of both meanwhile he can act as he likes. Why can't he open some other business? Why spirituality? Why bastardize this sacred field? People don't typically look at spiritual gurus as business owners so you can't fault them for trusting him. It is he who is not following the requirements of this field or is making money in  the wrong field in the wrong way. 

He wants the dignity and entitlementof a pastor(by calling himself spiritual teacher)but also run underhanded tactics like some shady businessman. This is typical of immoral pastors, shady religious people and cult leaders, they want the name but they don't want the moral integrity needed to keep that name held in high regard. They want to be regarded by people but they don't want the moral sacrifices that entail this kind of respect from people. In other words when it comes to reputation they want to be highly regarded and trusted, yet they want to be treated like a regular human on the street when they indulge in bad behavior, they want a Godly status but also be treated like a common person and not be judged for their poor behavior and be given a pass like other common people. Sorry. You can't get to be a Royal and not perform royal duties. You can't be regarded as a Queen and also be running a prostitution business. You get to keep only one out of the two. If Leo cannot behave like a spiritual teacher and maintain the dignity that goes along with it, then he should stop calling himself a teacher. You can't in the same breath call yourself a teacher and on the other act like some arrogant prick on the street. You can't be a teacher and also dance around drunk girls. Imagine if pastors in a church did that and danced around naked.. When you set yourself at an esteemed position like that, then people are going to be looking at you with some automatic expectations. People respect a person as above them only when they presume (automatically and by default) that person to be morally superior to them. 

People respect Sadguru because they think Sadguru is better than them(morally). 

If there is no moral difference between Leo and some average guy on the street, then why should we consider him awakened or enlightened or even better than us spiritually? Why should we respect or adore him? Respect comes from knowing that someone is better than us. Respect involves adulation and admiration. We respect what we admire. We don't admire average people because we don't expect much out of them. We consider them equal to us. But when we see someone better than us, we automatically begin to respect and admire them. 

 

Why do we respect celebrities? Because we intrinsically believe that they look better than us, do better than us and are  more talented than us.. 

 

To add a twist of irony and sarcasm, Leo is actually way worse than most of his followers, let alone be considered equal. 

 

A spiritual teacher doesn't abuse the trust of his followers even if he is running a business. 

 

Leo is a contradiction. You don't see so much criticism of any other spiritual leader. That's because he is ridiculously out of line. 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Cupcake

[Robed Mystic]

15 minutes ago, Cupcake said:

This is utter bullshit.  Do you even understand a teacher guru relationship?

But see that's where you went astray.  Did Leo ever state he was your guru or teacher or did you just become the student without any communication back from him?  

 

15 minutes ago, Cupcake said:

This is utter bullshit.  Do you even understand a teacher guru relationship? It's supposed to be a sacred relationship in spirituality. It's obviously based in trust. If trust doesn't exist, then why will a person even bother to listen to a teacher in the first place?

Not because of trust in the teacher - but because they are open minded and may want to see what it is about.  From there, with spirituality especially, one has to do their own investigation and contemplation if they are serious about it, not because they trust any "teacher" or "guru".   In my opinion your mind should always remain free to listen but then to discover for yourself whether there is any validity to what you have listened to.   Your intuition may play a role in this initially - but ultimately you will call BS if it is not something you align with. And with this stuff - it's way beyond just resonating.   If you haven't directly realized for yourself any of the stuff you listened to, then it simply is not true.   You should never give your mind away to someone else or to their words.    I don't even like the term mentor- because they will not be a mentor for long if at all - ofher than to teach you a specific task- and this wouldn't even apply to spirituality because it is 99% direct experience and the other 1% the conceptual framework.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Robed Mystic

[Reena]

Just now, Robed Mystic said:

Did Leo ever state he was your guru or teacher or did you just become the student without any communication back from him?  

You're so disingenuous. Leo calls his words "teachings" a million times on his forum. Are you kidding me? When he calls his words teachings, it's so obvious that he considers himself a teacher. 

The constant deflection here is amazing to watch. So much wishy washy dilly dallying and vague justifications  being thrown around? 

 

 

How far are you planning to go with guilt tripping me? 

 

[Loop]

@Robed Mystic

 

Apparently, I was one of his “best students” 😂. 
He said this to me when I was private messaging him one time.

 

[Robed Mystic]

1 minute ago, Cupcake said:

You're so disingenuous. Leo calls his words "teachings" a million times on his forum. Are you kidding me? When he calls his words teachings, it's so obvious that he considers himself a teacher. 

The constant deflection here is amazing to watch. So much wishy washy dilly dallying and vague justifications  being thrown around? 

 

 

How far are you planning to go with guilt tripping me? 

 

But there was no "relationship" its simply episodes that you listen to online.  Teachings is just an elegant way of saying videos.   

[Phil]

@Robed Mystic

51 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

But I will have to differ with you on those viewpoints. That is your perspective

1 hour ago, Robed Mystic said:

if they are stable enough to handle the stuff there

‘Those viewpoints’, is actually what you previously stated. That is what’s overlooked in the doing of it. So to speak, you’re saying your differing with a you… but actually on your own viewpoint. 

 

51 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

I only was on one zoom call but I do hope you encourage your followers to discover what is true for themselves.   Not to take what you say on faith.

You’re welcome to be on the calls, I’m glad you were and do hope to see ya again. However, that it seems you left with a notion or any question of taking anything said on faith, is indicative of having asserted beliefs through the entire call as if a teacher with a teaching. It’s not per se indicative of any other aspect of the call, nor was it similar to any other call. It’s really the same overlooking by the doing of it. Without the doing of it, clarity just arises in a somewhat hindsight manor. In that vein, I’m ‘putting my money where my mouth is’, which is really all that can be done beyond sharing the message with words… I’d like to double it and make it a hundred bucks. This could be very confusing, a .com giving away money for nothing, but it’ll make a lot of sense in three months. 

 

 

I’ll even make it two payments of fiddy, so you can still have two. 

This is kind of a no lose situation for you. 

 

51 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

To not take anything as dogma or belief, or to turn it into a religion.   You stated on the call that you felt i was speaking dogma, but keep in mind I could say the same about you.   You will have to be specific on where the misinformation lies and perhaps we could have a discussion on that.   

Specifically, ‘trusting’ is the same as ‘believing’.  Not-dogma requires no trust or belief. That’s spirituality. The investigation of what is absolutely true under any and all circumstances. Spirituality is kind of the opposite of manipulation in this way. Not that there’s anything wrong with any of this. 

 

51 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

I guess you haven't visited in a while.  I did way worse than this.  And had a private talk with Leo about it after he messaged me.  You see the reason I'm still a mod there is not because of my opinions of him as a person- it is that I support the content in the episodes.    And guess what?  If I were to get banned, that is fine too.   Trust me, I put him in his place in the worst way but we are fine.  And sometimes that's what a friend needs.  If I saw something about you that I thought could have a damaging impact on your followers, I would make you aware of it.   

Same thing. Overlooking via the doing of. Just peruse your won comments and you’ll see what’s being pointed to.

 

29 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Did Leo ever state he was your guru or teacher or did you just become the student without any communication back from him?  

This is utter denial, but again, that’s the bet. What isn’t seen now can be. Nothing to lose.  

 

[Phil]

8 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

But there was no "relationship" its simply episodes that you listen to online.  Teachings is just an elegant way of saying videos.   

She specifically referred to communication on the forum, and you specified from him. Again, complete and utter denial which can not be seen presently. Imagine walking into The Church of Scientology and stating that there aren’t levels. You’d be demeaned to sound crazy and asked to leave. 

[Reena]

1 hour ago, Robed Mystic said:

But there was no "relationship" its simply episodes that you listen to online.  Teachings is just an elegant way of saying videos.   

Then this is misleading and he should change it. 

Deep down I know he clearly means teachings. He always uses the word followers. 

There's no doubt that he engages in an unhealthy parasocial relationship with his followers. 

If he is strictly professional, then he won't be sharing personal blog videos to his website. 

Hell he even used the website to get a girlfriend by placing an adversitement/flyer for a potential girlfriend. So he is even ready to sleep with his followers? 

 

He flouts his own rules. Zero ethics. 

 

Bottomline, Leo Gura doesn't see a problem in flouting ethics of being a community leader and teacher. If he not a teacher, he shouldn't have a community in the first place. Who is leading this particular community? Not him? 

It's clearly not self-run Or self-moderated. It's run by him by using people from his own community like they do inside a cult. 

 

You know what, I could have easily silenced you on the spot but I'm not formidable enough for you guys. 

 

I'm born in a third world country in Asia and that's why I'm helpless. You watch what I would have done if I were born in America. I would have straight up approached the United States Department of Homeland Security Or the police and reported all the abuse I suffered on your website. I was cyberbullied for months and months and systematically harassed and abused, I was given death threats. There's evidence in my personal messages(because I was banned I can't show it) . I was stalked for months by stalkers creating accounts in my name. Moderators have deleted my comments on the forum multiple times. If I open up a police investigation, everything will be laid bare. But Leo Gura is damn lucky that I'm not American. So he is getting away with a lot of shit. 

I wouldn't let all of this just die down if I were American and he wouldn't have it so easy. 

Leo Gura is totally responsible for the harassment and abuse I suffered. 

He also acknowledged that I was bullied, yet deliberately chose to turn a blind eye to it. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by Cupcake