Actualized.org and Leo Gura must be stopped

[Phil]

Sometimes a situation can be seen clearly, and yet one isn’t allowing the peace that one is, seeing clearly. 

It’s like expecting Pepsi to give up caffeine, sugar & marketing to kids. 

[Reena]

Please show empathy in your responses. 

 

Nobody deserves to be punished unless they're willingly acting really badly despite being told several times. 

 

He banned me at a time when I was at my most vulnerable point in my life and going through a medical emergency. That isn't the right time to ban someone who has been a part of a community for 5 long years. There's something seriously effed up when you cannot even have basic humanity in a situation. 

He was fully aware of the situation since days before the ban, I had already informed him of the situation. 

He was being extremely callous and inconsiderate of a person's situation

 

That's why I feel so bad about this whole thing. 

It's easy to judge. It's hard to be in a person's shoes and understand what they're going through. 

Proserpina was in a similar situation. Leo banned her at a time when she needed support the most. Her mother had died and she was going through a lot mentally and Leo banned her and she felt messed up. 

 

 

This is where user Raptorsin7's words make perfect sense. Leo talks to people on the forum who are extremely vulnerable. 

 

And to act casually around people who are mentally ill is pretty bad. 

 

Imagine if Leo did the same to a person who is suicidal and banned him and the person who was relying on the forum for their friends and emotional support can suddenly feel detached and removed and this can feel very intense to the point that it can actually be the final straw that pushes them to jump off a  bridge. 

 

This is absolutely likely. 

 

And that's why what Leo does is almost playing with fire. 

 

Also his pickup strategies revolve around playing with women that can seriously hamper a woman's emotional states for life. 

 

The point remains that Leo has very little regard for anyone's life other than his own and more importantly the money in his bank account. 

 

Such a man cannot be trusted for his teachings. 

 

The trauma for me was extremely heavy and intense and I had made Leo aware of it because his mods were constantly cruel with me during that period. That's what blew my mind and why I feel like I saw Leo without the mask. 

In a way, without whatever happened, I would have never realized who Leo really was. 

 

This is the point that resonates the most with me -

 

 

This perfectly sums up Leo's utter disregard and callousness and this is not something you can morally compromise with. 

 

Even if Leo was trying to be ethical, he wasn't being moral, this is famously a very recognizable pattern among people who are phony, do not embody their own agenda, and mostly have ulterior motives behind what they do and the image they create of themselves, because a person who is genuinely concerned about people will care more about morals than ethics. 

 

Leo outed himself. But he could cares less about such things, as long as his bank account is going strong. 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Cupcake

[Reborn]

You are definitely exaggerating the bad things and traits about Leo, and are currently quite hyperfixated on him. Which is fine of course, I understand that the way he communicates his message to a more vulnerable demographic of people, isn't ideal. HOWEVER. That being said. Putting what I've previously said aside. There is definitely something sinister and scary about the way he teaches spirituality, and his particuliar constant fixation on death, Ego death, and his constant use of extremely negative examples just to make his point, such as pedophilia, holocaust, rape, suicide etc. There's just something messed up about it. Not to mention his delusional grandiose claims during his psychadelic trips, about him being omniscient (and then being proven wrong by an Amazon guy right afterwards), him saying that his new awakening transcended the awakenings of Buddha, Jesus etc. (as if he can possibly know that), claiming before the pandemic in 2020 that he might be able to perform miracles (which is total bollocks). And many more delusional claims continued, such as him being "Alien love", etc. His disregard for 2 people (that we know of) commiting suicide due to his teaching, and him being generally disconected from people and reality/life (which sounds like a complete opposite of what spirituality should be about) is also pretty suspect. He's definitely not someone people should follow religiously.

 

Believing that there's no objective reality, believing in complete psychadelic-enhanced solipsism, is something that would drive even the strongest person insane, and maybe there should be a bigger push in spiritual community, for some sort of rationality and basic morality while attempting to seek for Truth. And that maybe your philosophy shouldn't be based around a bunch of unfalsifiable claims, that cannot be proven right nor wrong. And that you should never ever assume that you actually discovered the ultimate Truth, or that you are even close to understanding how reality really works. I don't know, that's just my bit of mind, take it or leave it.

[Reena]

 

1 hour ago, Reborn said:

You are definitely exaggerating the bad things and traits about Leo, and are currently quite hyperfixated on him. Which is fine of course, I understand that the way he communicates his message to a more vulnerable demographic of people, isn't ideal. HOWEVER. That being said. Putting what I've previously said aside. There is definitely something sinister and scary about the way he teaches spirituality, and his particuliar constant fixation on death, Ego death, and his constant use of extremely negative examples just to make his point, such as pedophilia, holocaust, rape, suicide etc. There's just something messed up about it. Not to mention his delusional grandiose claims during his psychadelic trips, about him being omniscient (and then being proven wrong by an Amazon guy right afterwards), him saying that his new awakening transcended the awakenings of Buddha, Jesus etc. (as if he can possibly know that), claiming before the pandemic in 2020 that he might be able to perform miracles (which is total bollocks). And many more delusional claims continued, such as him being "Alien love", etc. His disregard for 2 people (that we know of) commiting suicide due to his teaching, and him being generally disconected from people and reality/life (which sounds like a complete opposite of what spirituality should be about) is also pretty suspect. He's definitely not someone people should follow religiously.

 

Believing that there's no objective reality, believing in complete psychadelic-enhanced solipsism, is something that would drive even the strongest person insane, and maybe there should be a bigger push in spiritual community, for some sort of rationality and basic morality while attempting to seek for Truth. And that maybe your philosophy shouldn't be based around a bunch of unfalsifiable claims, that cannot be proven right nor wrong. And that you should never ever assume that you actually discovered the ultimate Truth, or that you are even close to understanding how reality really works. I don't know, that's just my bit of mind, take it or leave it.

Im not exaggerating any of the stuff, in fact it's not stated enough and most of the time ignored by brainwashed followers of Leo Gura. 

I'm just traumatized by it all so it gives the impression that I'm fixated on him. 

But this how a traumatized person is going to behave, their reactions are going to be intense because they are suffering a lot of frustration as a result of the impact of a situation. 

I just hope that nobody else has to go through what I went through, because it felt like hell, although time eventually heals everything but the  brain always remembers. 

Leo will quickly forget how he mistreats people but karma will not forget him, karma arises from the pain and agony we suffer. 

 

Our goal should always be to never inflict pain on anyone. Leo Gura is a hypocrite because he teaches a ton of spiritual platitudes but his inside is hollow, he inflicts pain in people without any remorse. 

 

People who are vulnerable are like children. They innocently put their trust in him. And he abuses this trust to grow his brand. He does everything opposite of spirituality, that's because he operates not from the intent to be spiritual, but from ego. 

 

You must have noticed that most spiritual leaders and gurus have a glow on their faces, they're always smiling, they are full of peace, their presence automatically makes you feel loved. But Leo always has a miserable grumpy face, his presence brings a feeling of control, fear, depression, that's because he is not awake, he is not enlightened and he is not spiritual. His work doesn't bring happiness. His work is phony and rooted in inflating his own ego. 

It's all about him, about Leo Gura. It's all him. 

He is totally messed up but he has a hold on people. 

 

[Reena]

1 hour ago, Reborn said:

You are definitely exaggerating the bad things and traits about Leo, and are currently quite hyperfixated on him. Which is fine of course, I understand that the way he communicates his message to a more vulnerable demographic of people, isn't ideal. HOWEVER. That being said. Putting what I've previously said aside. There is definitely something sinister and scary about the way he teaches spirituality, and his particuliar constant fixation on death, Ego death, and his constant use of extremely negative examples just to make his point, such as pedophilia, holocaust, rape, suicide etc. There's just something messed up about it. Not to mention his delusional grandiose claims during his psychadelic trips, about him being omniscient (and then being proven wrong by an Amazon guy right afterwards), him saying that his new awakening transcended the awakenings of Buddha, Jesus etc. (as if he can possibly know that), claiming before the pandemic in 2020 that he might be able to perform miracles (which is total bollocks). And many more delusional claims continued, such as him being "Alien love", etc. His disregard for 2 people (that we know of) commiting suicide due to his teaching, and him being generally disconected from people and reality/life (which sounds like a complete opposite of what spirituality should be about) is also pretty suspect. He's definitely not someone people should follow religiously.

 

Believing that there's no objective reality, believing in complete psychadelic-enhanced solipsism, is something that would drive even the strongest person insane, and maybe there should be a bigger push in spiritual community, for some sort of rationality and basic morality while attempting to seek for Truth. And that maybe your philosophy shouldn't be based around a bunch of unfalsifiable claims, that cannot be proven right nor wrong. And that you should never ever assume that you actually discovered the ultimate Truth, or that you are even close to understanding how reality really works. I don't know, that's just my bit of mind, take it or leave it.

By the way I agree with your other points. Something shady about what he does. 

But spirituality is about purity. 

 

So anything shady even in the slightest is a bastardization of spirituality and is highly dangerous because people are already too confused about spirituality, any wrong turn can completely tilt their life upside down. 

 

 

 

[Reena]

 

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

 

You're very enlightening. Yes I wish I could be completely myself online. It's not easy though, especially being a woman. I have been stalked on Actualized forum and I was given death threats by the stalker. So this is kinda complicated issue online, much easier for men and not that easy for women. 

 

I had been on a group online before and I had received multiple rape threats. That really put me on edge when it comes to completely revealing myself in online communities. 

 

Since you are already in the legal field, these things are probably a bit easier for you than for others. Most people dont know how the law operates around online identity and stalking. In many places around the globe, these laws are too weak. 

 

At least I was able to manage to upload my real picture which was a challenge in itself. 

 

I agree with a lot of what you said that if people were more transparent online, things will be a bit easier. 

 

 

 

[sacredprofane]

16 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

i'm sorry...being criticized on an online forum is WORSE than the vietnam war?  

look, i get it, you are extremely sensitive.  maybe forums are not for you.  but there is a ton of straight up paranoia coming from you in this.  

 

[sacredprofane]

i feel put in a strange position over this leo thing(and other similar online personalities) and that is, i see the lack of credentials and regulations required to make money in this way, off of self help or spirituality or whatever it is, is very problematic.  which puts me in the position of arguing in favor of requiring these things, which i never would have thought was something i would argue for.  i don't think a person should NEED to have a degree or be pass some through some type of regulatory system in order to share their thoughts or "teachings" on something, and that they should be free to make money from it, if it's something other people value enough to pay for.  BUT then fucking leo comes along, and... makes  a strong case for them.  where is the line drawn between being a "professional" therapist or psychologist where you need a degree, and some type of free lance "life coaching" unregulated thing?  if people trust you, you really have the same amount of responsibility, don't you?  but you have nobody holding you accountable LEGALLY or professionally.  someone with leos personality and ways of doing things would never ever be approved of to be a therapist or psychologist within the legal parameters that are established, he flies under the radar and therefor can do anything he wants to.  do i REALLY want regulations online?  I DON"T KNOW.... but the online self help shit is fraught with this, and its currently just the wild west as far as regulations go, which is part of what is great about the internet and what i don't really want to go away....so... its a problem i don't have an answer for.  i mean, by the way, if regulations were required to make money doing this, phil would probably not be able to either.  

Edited February 20, 2023 by sacredprofane

[Robed Mystic]

50 minutes ago, sacredprofane said:

i feel put in a strange position over this leo thing(and other similar online personalities) and that is, i see the lack of credentials and regulations required to make money in this way, off of self help or spirituality or whatever it is, is very problematic.  which puts me in the position of arguing in favor of requiring these things, which i never would have thought was something i would argue for.  i don't think a person should NEED to have a degree or be pass some through some type of regulatory system in order to share their thoughts or "teachings" on something, and that they should be free to make money from it, if it's something other people value enough to pay for.  BUT then fucking leo comes along, and... makes  a strong case for them.  where is the line drawn between being a "professional" therapist or psychologist where you need a degree, and some type of free lance "life coaching" unregulated thing?  if people trust you, you really have the same amount of responsibility, don't you?  but you have nobody holding you accountable LEGALLY or professionally.  someone with leos personality and ways of doing things would never ever be approved of to be a therapist or psychologist within the legal parameters that are established, he flies under the radar and therefor can do anything he wants to.  do i REALLY want regulations online?  I DON"T KNOW.... but the online self help shit is fraught with this, and its currently just the wild west as far as regulations go, which is part of what is great about the internet and what i don't really want to go away....so... its a problem i don't have an answer for.  i mean, by the way, if regulations were required to make money doing this, phil would probably not be able to either.  

He flies under the radar but his material also does.  The material there is hundreds of years ahead of science.   So like most things its a give and take. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Robed Mystic

[sacredprofane]

4 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

He flies under the radar but his material also does.  The material there is hundreds of years ahead of science.   Give and take. 

i wonder what gives you this idea besides he himself telling you that and you believing it.  which material specifically do you think is hundreds of years ahead of science?  how to pick up girls?  the alien kangaroo mouse?  plugging dmt anally to become god?

Edited February 20, 2023 by sacredprofane

[Robed Mystic]

Just now, sacredprofane said:

i wonder what gives you this idea besides he himself telling you that and you believing it.  which material specifically do you think is hundreds of years ahead of science?

Go listen to it.   The metaphysical catalog specifically.  

[sacredprofane]

3 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Go listen to it.   The metaphysical catalog specifically.  

i've heard some of it...enough to know that it is a mix of what other people have already said and baseless drug induced speculation.  why do you think nobody legit takes him seriously, nor ever will?  his fanbase consists largely of angry suicidal incel boys.  if you tell me one specific video to watch, i will watch it with an open mind and get back to you 

Edited February 20, 2023 by sacredprofane

[Robed Mystic]

6 minutes ago, sacredprofane said:

i've heard some of it...enough to know that it is a mix of what other people have already said and baseless drug induced speculation.  why do you think nobody legit takes him seriously, nor ever will?  his fanbase consists largely of angry suicidal incel boys.  if you tell me one specific video to watch, i will watch it with an open mind and get back to you 

What is Absolute Infinity part 1 and 2.  What is Perception.  Quantum Mechanics debunked.  Godels Incompleteness fhereom.  What is Paradox.   What is Truth.  What is Consciousness.  What is Death.   What is Love.  

After all of that-  go back to the very first enlightenment videos and do self inquiry along with him..  if you haven't had an awakening call me.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Robed Mystic

[Reborn]

15 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

He flies under the radar but his material also does.  The material there is hundreds of years ahead of science.   So like most things its a give and take. 

No it's not. LOL but he surely makes it seem as if he's claiming something completely unique, never said before, or something that scientists, philosophers etc. never ever pondered about. As if his philosophy of idealism mixed with drug enhanced solipsism, his ideas about non duality and his arguments against scientific materialism, are his inventions. Of course fucking not LOL but his pleasant, inteligent and seemingly warm way of speaking surely makes it seem as if he's some sort of genius. In reality, if we take into account just how goddamn long his videos really are, he really doesn't say much. He says maybe 3-6 main ideas/points per each 3 hour video.

[sacredprofane]

2 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

What is Absolute Infinity part 1 and 2.  What is Perception.  Quantum Mechanics debunked.  Godels Incompleteness fhereom.  What is Paradox.   What is Truth.  What is Consciousness.  What is Death.   What is Love.  

After all of that-  go back to the very first enlightenment videos and do self inquiry along with him..  if you haven't had an awakening call me.

i've seen some of those.  its not material that is unique to him, and what is unique to him is chock full of logical fallacies, straw man arguments, gas lighting, etc.  they would not hold up against peer review for one minute.  

[Robed Mystic]

Just now, Reborn said:

No it's not. LOL but he surely makes it seem as if he's claiming something completely unique, never said before, or something that scientists, philosophers etc. never ever pondered about. As if his philosophy of idealism mixed with drug enhanced solipsism, his ideas about non duality and his arguments against scientific materialism, are his inventions. Of course fucking not LOL but his pleasant, inteligent and seemingly warm way of speaking surely makes it seem as if he's some sort of genius. In reality, if we take into account just how goddamn long his videos really are, he really doesn't say much. He says maybe 3-6 main ideas/points per each 3 hour video.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

[sacredprofane]

Just now, Robed Mystic said:

You have no idea what you are talking about.

actually, he is spot on.  you simply seem to have drank the kool aid.

[Robed Mystic]

Just now, sacredprofane said:

i've seen some of those.  

No you haven't.   You haven't listened.   Otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.   Take all bias out - which is required for awakening. 

[Reena]

 

59 minutes ago, sacredprofane said:

i feel put in a strange position over this leo thing(and other similar online personalities) and that is, i see the lack of credentials and regulations required to make money in this way, off of self help or spirituality or whatever it is, is very problematic.  which puts me in the position of arguing in favor of requiring these things, which i never would have thought was something i would argue for.  i don't think a person should NEED to have a degree or be pass some through some type of regulatory system in order to share their thoughts or "teachings" on something, and that they should be free to make money from it, if it's something other people value enough to pay for.  BUT then fucking leo comes along, and... makes  a strong case for them.  where is the line drawn between being a "professional" therapist or psychologist where you need a degree, and some type of free lance "life coaching" unregulated thing?  if people trust you, you really have the same amount of responsibility, don't you?  but you have nobody holding you accountable LEGALLY or professionally.  someone with leos personality and ways of doing things would never ever be approved of to be a therapist or psychologist within the legal parameters that are established, he flies under the radar and therefor can do anything he wants to.  do i REALLY want regulations online?  I DON"T KNOW.... but the online self help shit is fraught with this, and its currently just the wild west as far as regulations go, which is part of what is great about the internet and what i don't really want to go away....so... its a problem i don't have an answer for.  i mean, by the way, if regulations were required to make money doing this, phil would probably not be able to either.  

So many valid points. Yes self help gurus acting like they know everything about psychology. That's a straight up con. They're trying to outdo experts on psychology and philosophy. This field is rapidly turning toxic, one of the main reasons being the variety of topics you can have an opinion on. Almost every thing comes under the umbrella of self help.. Imagine being able to have an opinion on every little thing under the sun. It will automatically stroke a person's ego, make them feel like they know it all, give them this vapid impression that they have it all figured out. This industry is the one which faces the highest potential for exploitation and abuse. Exactly. This field was largely untapped for too long. It's also a field where there aren't enough regulations and licenses. So you basically do as you please. For someone like Leo, such a field is a candy store. He can play around it however he wants and that's exactly what he did. 

And you're right. Someone with Leo's personality can never be considered legit as a therapist although Leo inappropriately assumes the role of an all knowing therapist while talking to his followers. Another one in a long series of situations where he lacks integrity. 

 

[sacredprofane]

Just now, Robed Mystic said:

No you haven't.   You haven't listened.   Otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.   Take all bias out - which is required for awakening. 

actually, i have, i just have the ability to think critically for myself.  like i said, he would not hold up against peer review(which of course he denies the importance of) but that is absolutely required to pass muster outside of your devoted fanbase.