nurthur11 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 hours ago, Phil said: Who believes it’s worthwhile? What makes it worthwhile, which isn’t a belief? How do you know that’s true? How come? what i expected you to say here is to say why isnt worthwhile or while is worthwhile Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Maybe the ‘issue’ is nonduality, spirituality and consciousness aren’t work or worldviews. Nonduality means not two, and work or worldview would be two or ‘the second’. Spirituality isn’t a practice, it’s an investigation (imo), and consciousness is infinite so there’s no separate finite self actually doing any “consciousness work”. Worldview seems to basically amount to conceptualization or belief. Nothing wrong with that, but I’d let go of the worldview held rather than defend it. I’d appreciate that the defending of helped that to be noticed, and I’d carry on with the investigation of direct experience, and share what’s found. Depressing is a dualistic conceptualization of emotion - it’s depressing for me, they depress me, this is depressing. Nonduality means not two. If friends believing the materialist’s paradigm is depressing, the thing to do is continue the investigation. If practices like meditation, self inquiry, etc are found to be helpful, maybe share that with them. Doubt is an emotion. The path and or spirituality, as investigating for what is absolutely true, means ‘doubting the spiritual path’ doesn’t quite makes sense. It’s like saying I’m doubting the investigation for what’s absolutely true… because of what some people say on reddit and rational wiki. The doubt is felt in regard to the conceptualization or idea of nonduality, spirituality or consciousness. Notice there is then disappointment, and so on. No one knows, understands and therefore is right about nonduality / consciousness precisely because the truth is infinite. There might be some conjecture, misunderstandings, etc at play here as well. I could see where terminology like nondualist’s and or people having levels of consciousness from doing consciousness work, etc would be very confusing. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 22 hours ago, Phil said: Who believes it’s worthwhile? Me at least in the relative ego sense. 23 hours ago, Phil said: What makes it worthwhile, which isn’t a belief? Not really sure how to answer that 23 hours ago, Phil said: How do you know that’s true? Personal experience, scientific studies and pretty much any analysis of human psychology. 23 hours ago, Phil said: How come? It doesn't make sense. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: Me at least in the relative ego sense. What’s the relative? What’s the ego? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: Not really sure how to answer that There might be a very good ‘reason’ for that. The belief in spiritual practices being worthwhile isn’t quite the same as for, or to know, the truth. That belief might be related to the beliefs in states of consciousness, the relative and the absolute. Those beliefs might be why this is being experienced… On 2/12/2023 at 11:40 AM, spiritual dreams said: @Phil I guess the main issue is in not being able to fit in with more materialistically minded people and struggling to integrate in such a materialistic society. I find myself being pulled backwards and doubting the spiritual path simply because no one else believes in it and society views me as a crazy person for being spiritual. On 2/13/2023 at 1:02 PM, spiritual dreams said: People's beliefs are influenced by their environments. Everyone I know and the social media platforms I go on think spiritual practice is bullshit. This definitely has an influence on my beliefs. I thought I was having a stroke when I was reading this... How do you know that’s true? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: Personal experience, scientific studies and pretty much any analysis of human psychology. This goes back to questioning / inspecting direct experience. Is the direct experience of that of these things in perception… or is it of perception, and thoughts? How do you know that states of consciousness, the relative and the absolute aren’t personal beliefs? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: It doesn't make sense Have you ever experienced a stroke? Maybe that it felt like having a stroke, if there isn’t the direct experience referenced, is what doesn’t make sense. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Phil said: What’s the relative? What’s the ego? I'd say the state where I identify as a human. 1 hour ago, Phil said: There might be a very good ‘reason’ for that. The belief in spiritual practices being worthwhile isn’t quite the same as for, or to know, the truth. That belief might be related to the beliefs in states of consciousness, the relative and the absolute. Those beliefs might be why this is being experienced… But if I don't have access to the truth, then the belief that spiritual practice is a path the truth is pretty important. 1 hour ago, Phil said: This goes back to questioning / inspecting direct experience. Is the direct experience of that of these things in perception… or is it of perception, and thoughts? Being influenced by the environment is true both from personal direct experience and scientific studies. When I spend time with materialistically minded people, my beliefs change. 1 hour ago, Phil said: How do you know that states of consciousness, the relative and the absolute aren’t personal beliefs? The fact that I could know things and have personal beliefs implies the relative as well as states of consciousness. 1 hour ago, Phil said: Have you ever experienced a stroke? It was a joke. https://www.reddit.com/r/ihadastroke/top/?t=all Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 22 hours ago, Phil said: Maybe the ‘issue’ is nonduality, spirituality and consciousness aren’t work or worldviews. Nonduality means not two, and work or worldview would be two or ‘the second’. Spirituality isn’t a practice, it’s an investigation (imo), and consciousness is infinite so there’s no separate finite self actually doing any “consciousness work”. Worldview seems to basically amount to conceptualization or belief. Nothing wrong with that, but I’d let go of the worldview held rather than defend it. I’d appreciate that the defending of helped that to be noticed, and I’d carry on with the investigation of direct experience, and share what’s found. Depressing is a dualistic conceptualization of emotion - it’s depressing for me, they depress me, this is depressing. Nonduality means not two. If friends believing the materialist’s paradigm is depressing, the thing to do is continue the investigation. If practices like meditation, self inquiry, etc are found to be helpful, maybe share that with them. Doubt is an emotion. The path and or spirituality, as investigating for what is absolutely true, means ‘doubting the spiritual path’ doesn’t quite makes sense. It’s like saying I’m doubting the investigation for what’s absolutely true… because of what some people say on reddit and rational wiki. The doubt is felt in regard to the conceptualization or idea of nonduality, spirituality or consciousness. Notice there is then disappointment, and so on. No one knows, understands and therefore is right about nonduality / consciousness precisely because the truth is infinite. There might be some conjecture, misunderstandings, etc at play here as well. I could see where terminology like nondualist’s and or people having levels of consciousness from doing consciousness work, etc would be very confusing. This is the answer I was looking for. Thanks Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 59 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: I'd say the state where I identify as a human. Are the relative, the ego and a state actually “in” perception, as in ever actually seen? 59 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: But if I don't have access to the truth, then the belief that spiritual practice is a path the truth is pretty important. That a pretty questionable if. If you don’t have access to the truth, how do you know it’s true, that there is the relative, the ego, a state or states somewhere, and access & no access to… the truth? Who doesn’t have access to the truth? Who does have access to the truth? What if consciousness is infinite? Could there still be a you which doesn’t have access? 59 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: Being influenced by the environment is true both from personal direct experience and scientific studies. When I spend time with materialistically minded people, my beliefs change. But how much of that is influenced by perception? 59 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: The fact that I could know things and have personal beliefs implies the relative as well as states of consciousness. Are facts in perception too? 59 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: It was a joke. https://www.reddit.com/r/ihadastroke/top/?t=all Yes, it was funny. 🙂 17 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: This is the answer I was looking for. Thanks 🍻 Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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