spiritual dreams Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, Phil said: Is the acceptance in perception, or sensation, or both? Neither, it seems to transcend both. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 2/8/2023 at 6:12 PM, spiritual dreams said: One of the major things preventing me from letting go is the fear of extreme suffering. I am confident that I can transcend almost all of the suffering that a normal person can experience. However, the extreme suffering that is possible still frightens me. I'm talking about war ,torture, rape, my loved ones dying out of nowhere, mutilation and extreme disability. It is possible that all of this could happen and in fact it is happening. I spend a lot of time worrying about this shit, I don't think any amount of awakening will allow me to transcend this kind of suffering. I saw a post about a gifted spiritual prodigy who achieved insane levels of awakening and was able to transcend intense physical pain and yet they experiences something unspeakable and they became permanently traumatized and suicidal and have yet to recover. Isn't awakening supposed to make you immune to this sort of stuff? I'm unable to fully let go because I cannot accept such extreme levels of suffering. To those who disagree, watch a mexican cartel torture video and come back and tell me you can accept that. You might understand where I'm coming from. 9 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: Neither, it seems to transcend both. Might seem to, but how’s that working out actually? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Phil said: Might seem to, but how’s that working out actually? perception and sensation are one and part of something deeper which I can't really describe. That's what I was trying to say. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: perception and sensation are one and part of something deeper which I can't really describe. That's what I was trying to say. There doesn’t seem to be any issue describing perception & sensation here…. On 2/8/2023 at 6:12 PM, spiritual dreams said: One of the major things preventing me from letting go is the fear of extreme suffering. I am confident that I can transcend almost all of the suffering that a normal person can experience. However, the extreme suffering that is possible still frightens me. I'm talking about war ,torture, rape, my loved ones dying out of nowhere, mutilation and extreme disability. It is possible that all of this could happen and in fact it is happening. I spend a lot of time worrying about this shit, I don't think any amount of awakening will allow me to transcend this kind of suffering. I saw a post about a gifted spiritual prodigy who achieved insane levels of awakening and was able to transcend intense physical pain and yet they experiences something unspeakable and they became permanently traumatized and suicidal and have yet to recover. Isn't awakening supposed to make you immune to this sort of stuff? I'm unable to fully let go because I cannot accept such extreme levels of suffering. To those who disagree, watch a mexican cartel torture video and come back and tell me you can accept that. You might understand where I'm coming from. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Phil said: There doesn’t seem to be any issue describing perception & sensation here…. Yes, when I'm resisting, there is a duality between the perciever and the sensations. When I surrender, the duality dissolves. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, spiritual dreams said: Yes, when I'm resisting, there is a duality between the perciever and the sensations. When I surrender, the duality dissolves. Is this duality in perception or sensation? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Phil said: Is this duality in perception or sensation? perception I think. Like I perceive of a perceiver that feels sensations. But it also might be a sensation. the perceiver feels like a strain behind my eyes. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 2/9/2023 at 7:21 PM, spiritual dreams said: perception I think Isn’t that a thought, as compared to seen ‘in’ perception or felt in sensation? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Phil said: Isn’t that a thought, as compared to seen ‘in’ perception of felt in sensation? yes, but thoughts are part of perception. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, spiritual dreams said: yes, but thoughts are part of perception. How many parts of perception are there? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, Phil said: How many parts of perception are there? either a lot or just one depending on the perspective. But in my daily life it appears as lots of parts of perception. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurthur11 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 8 minutes ago, Phil said: How many parts of perception are there? Two parts. The part of perceiving and what is perceived. These two parts make one part which is perception - then after you have perception your good to go. You can find perception also in awareness. Actually, awareness is the purest form of perception. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: suffering is an illusion, there is no self, be in the present moment, nonresistance. etc. And how do you get from here to accepting mexican cartel torture? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: If I knew that I wouldn't be on here... In the original post of this thread it kind of seemed like you knew. 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: The absolute truth is that torture doesn't exist. The relative truth is that if someone hooked a car battery to your balls, it would hurt... It very much sounds like you've been swallowing someone else's nonsense and starting to feel the nausea. Inspect the assumption regarding absolute and relative "truths": Where is the absolute & relative - distinction in direct experience? How can there be two truths? If there was in fact absolute & relative truths, wouldn't that mean that the even greater truth would be that there is absolute & relative truths? If so, how could there be... Absolute and relative truths? 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: Yes that's what im trying to do but it's hard to let go of the belief that torture, rape and genocide are bad. IMO what you're actually saying here seems to be: "But it's hard to not experience discordant emotion believing torture, rape and genocide could happen to me." Yeah, it's hard. Cause the discordant feeling comes from believing discordant (false) thoughts. Like it was already mentioned, anyone would feel the same discord when focusing on the same belief. The relief, or liberation is in letting go the belief. Not in adding more beliefs and assumptions, such as "I need to transcend this and that, I need to face my fear, I need to be more spiritually developed" etc. Anyone would feel the same discord when focusing on the same belief. Sometimes though, as manipulation tactic, it is conveyed that there are separate selves and that more "developed" or "knowledgeable" selves would not experience the discord, like fear. In other words, you do not experience discordant emotion, like fear, because there is fear or something fearful in you. The emotion fear is how the thought feels to you, how it relates to the truth (you). 1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said: But letting go is not a logical decision but an emotional one. I very much agree. Perhaps one of the best advice I've ever had was "put feeling first". Also "nothing is as important as your wellbeing." Let go, just for the sake of how it feels. Feeling is far, if not infinitely, more wise than "logic", belief, or anything anyone else says. Feeling is self-evident. Happiness is the truth. This is what "nonresistance" points to. Edited February 10, 2023 by Blessed2 Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: And how do you get from here to accepting mexican cartel torture? nonresistance. Like how the fuck am I supposed to not resist that shit? 4 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: In the original post of this thread it kind of seemed like you knew. If I knew how to achieve permanent states of transcending suffering, I would be enjoying that but I'm having trouble doing that. 6 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: Where is the absolute & relative - distinction in direct experience? The distinction is in myself as a limited thing that must survive rather than the godhead. 8 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: The relief, or liberation is in letting go the belief. thats what I'm struggling with. 8 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: Let go, just for the sake of how it feels. Feeling is far, if not infinitely, more wise than "logic", belief, or anything anyone else says. Ok will try. thanks. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 49 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said: either a lot or just one depending on the perspective. But in my daily life it appears as lots of parts of perception. Thoughts are in and are parts of perception, as if one might have to get glasses to see thoughts more clearly? Or a hearing aid? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, Phil said: Thoughts are in and are parts of perception, as if one might have to get glasses to see thoughts more clearly? Or a hearing aid? I gues psychedelics and meditation are the equivalents. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 @spiritual dreams Sorry, not sure what’s meant there. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 @spiritual dreams Like, overall… to this…? On 2/8/2023 at 6:12 PM, spiritual dreams said: One of the major things preventing me from letting go is the fear of extreme suffering. I am confident that I can transcend almost all of the suffering that a normal person can experience. However, the extreme suffering that is possible still frightens me. I'm talking about war ,torture, rape, my loved ones dying out of nowhere, mutilation and extreme disability. It is possible that all of this could happen and in fact it is happening. I spend a lot of time worrying about this shit, I don't think any amount of awakening will allow me to transcend this kind of suffering. I saw a post about a gifted spiritual prodigy who achieved insane levels of awakening and was able to transcend intense physical pain and yet they experiences something unspeakable and they became permanently traumatized and suicidal and have yet to recover. Isn't awakening supposed to make you immune to this sort of stuff? I'm unable to fully let go because I cannot accept such extreme levels of suffering. To those who disagree, watch a mexican cartel torture video and come back and tell me you can accept that. You might understand where I'm coming from. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritual dreams Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Phil said: @spiritual dreams Sorry, not sure what’s meant there. you were talking about glasses and hearing aids to see thoughts more clearly. To be honest I didn't really follow what you originally said either. Edited February 10, 2023 by spiritual dreams Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 1 minute ago, spiritual dreams said: you were talking about glasses and hearing aids to see thoughts more clearly. To be honest I didn't really follow what you originally said either. Are you saying thoughts are in perception, as in seen & heard, such that one might get glasses to see thoughts more clearly? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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