What "Triggers" You?

[Links]

11 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@WhiteOwl @Links Why do you think it feels bad or discordant to be blamed? 

 

Could be a number of things, and here's some theories off the top of my head.  
  

- Being shamed as a child when I did something "wrong", "naughty" etc, and that's set up neural pathways triggering anxiety response. 

- Blame is a form of social ostracism and therefore a threat to my membership of the society. 

- Perceiving a threat to survival against the background of insecurity and demographic decline of "my" in-group. Ie there's an in-group preference that's being attacked by an out-group. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Links

[Mandy]

1 minute ago, Links said:

- Being shamed as a child when I did something "wrong", "naughty" etc, and that's set up neural pathways triggering anxiety response.

It felt bad then, as it feels bad now though, right? Like, you instantly knew that blame felt bad, right? 

2 minutes ago, Links said:

- Blame is a form of social ostracism and therefore a threat to my membership of the society. 

 Logical, but that's not why it directly feels bad. 

 

In order for me to blame or to feel blamed, I have to believe that, 

 

-I'm a separate self.

- Others are separate from me.

- I am wrong in some way.

-Others are wrong in some way and their thoughts about me have the power to keep me from my happiness and wellbeing in the moment. (A more general way of wording your last two theories.) Always dig for the root. 

 

[Links]

45 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Logical, but that's not why it directly feels bad. 

 

Could be. But what feels bad is believing I'm a separate person in a world of powerful groups, which I'm excluded from. So I'm theorising that my bad feelings are ironically a kind of self-preservation by encouraging me to conform to the group (eg the child-parent relationship) and obtain safety and needs met.

 

50 minutes ago, Mandy said:

In order for me to blame or to feel blamed, I have to believe that, 

 

-I'm a separate self.

- Others are separate from me.

- I am wrong in some way.

-Others are wrong in some way and their thoughts about me have the power to keep me from my happiness and wellbeing in the moment. (A more general way of wording your last two theories.) Always dig for the root. 

  

Ok, digging down to the primal division into self/other, it creates a whole bunch of insecurity if I'm trying to preserve that split. Mind you, it cuts both ways because the separate "other" relies  on separate "selves" for it's existence too. 

[Links]

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

It felt bad then, as it feels bad now though, right? Like, you instantly knew that blame felt bad, right?

 

Badness isn't in the blame itself, but more like the belief that love is being withdrawn. 

[Mandy]

42 minutes ago, Links said:

 

Could be. But what feels bad is believing I'm a separate person in a world of powerful groups, which I'm excluded from. 

 👍@WhiteOwl@Links A couple weeks ago I suffered some because I interpreted that my male friend is allowed to be patient and sell his used vehicles for what they are truly worth because he takes on much less risk as a male meeting strangers on the internet and therefore does not hesitate to do so, where the whole situation of selling a car makes me uncomfortable enough that I'm willing to sell the car for much less rather than risk my safety or put myself in a situation where I feel insecure. It feels bad to believe that men have the upper hand, the strength, the safety, the security, the assumed unquestioned right to be able to focus on their career without a huge interrupt or total sacrifice of it if they also desire to become a parent. It makes me think that I'm worth-less which feels bad. 

 

But it's true, right? That's nature, that's how "it is" right? Why does it feel bad to focus/think like this? 

 

Isn't in interesting that men can view that the status quo or the feminist groups or the perception that society/government has the upper hand and wants to favor women in the way I feel men are naturally favored in the world as described above? 

 

Going to the root of things, isn't it exactly the same thing? Aren't both sides doing exactly as you described above? 

 

When I'm focused on lack or unwanted and refuse to turn to what I DO want, that feels bad. Isn't it true that when I refuse to focus on the beautiful opportunities I've got here now that I totally dismiss, ignore and therefore do not actually take advantage of them? 

 

 

[Rose]

Middle eastern cultures, Arab cultures, Indian cultures, Chinese culture - basically anything that is stage blue and patriotic really triggers me. Anyone who uses their “culture” as some sort or pride point. When there are double standards and favouritism amongst people in those cultures but they frown upon others doing it.  

Edited February 10, 2023 by Rose

[Serenity]

Shame. Feeling unworthy.

 

Unaligned masculinity.

[WhiteOwl]

2 hours ago, Mandy said:

 👍@WhiteOwl@Links A couple weeks ago I suffered some because I interpreted that my male friend is allowed to be patient and sell his used vehicles for what they are truly worth because he takes on much less risk as a male meeting strangers on the internet and therefore does not hesitate to do so, where the whole situation of selling a car makes me uncomfortable enough that I'm willing to sell the car for much less rather than risk my safety or put myself in a situation where I feel insecure. It feels bad to believe that men have the upper hand, the strength, the safety, the security, the assumed unquestioned right to be able to focus on their career without a huge interrupt or total sacrifice of it if they also desire to become a parent. It makes me think that I'm worth-less which feels bad. 

 

I didn't get why its more safe to meet up with someone if you are trying to sell it cheap rather than the price you want, and i also always feel insecure and uncomfortable if selling things, i don't think thats a female thing, but it sure does put a lot of emotions in play for some reason. I understand the threat of rape must be terrible to live with and its hard to imagine for most men including myself, but 99,9% of men would never do such a thing and doesn't like to be grouped with rapists just because we biologically have the opportunity. Not that you wan't to gamble by any margin, but selling a car during the day with people around (i suppose) doesn't seem to be a gamble. I don't know the situation, maybe you live alone on a farm or something. On the ebay-like site here Denmark you can verify yourself, which is more safe.

 

And yes its true that women get a major setback in regards to those things when giving birth, but again thats the reality, dont blame men for that. unless you see life as a competition with your spouse i guess you are happy that he can work/get food while you are in that situation. Would be a tad difficult if human couples gave birth together, however that would be. You can also decide not to have to have kids, or you can try to find someone willing to let you focus on your career completely before and after. 

 

2 hours ago, Mandy said:

Isn't in interesting that men can view that the status quo or the feminist groups or the perception that society/government has the upper hand and wants to favor women in the way I feel men are naturally favored in the world as described above? 

Men are favored only if you see the world very materialistically and money-wise, it seems to me. Just because we are different and men have more security and strength from nature, which i don't deny of course, doesn't mean they are winning the game easier, as there really is no game. But also, are men to be blamed for that?

 

There are also many struggles that men have that women don't. We have to be the strongest etc etc. It's a tough world. 

 

 

I think it feels bad to be blamed because of a few things in my case;

 

1) I am a competitor and some women are starting a competition with me, while giving me a handicap and putting themselves on a victim pedestal. Its saying "whatever you achieve it was just so much easier just because you are a white-cis-male". 

What they say is masked as a form of righteousness, while i believe it is as competitive and mean as society normally is.

 

2) The accusers wouldn't behave any different at all if they had those privileges, which they all do in so many areas. 

 

3) Many of the points that @Linkssaid.

 

That women are oppressed in many places of the world does not put them in a category with white scandinavian females. They don't have a lot more in common with oppressed women from some middle eastern contries with niqab never allowed to leave the house (as an example, nothing against niqab if thats what you decide to), than i do. We could be a lot more together in the "fight" if we didn't get blamed / put into a category, or thats what i believe.

[Serenity]

When the thread about "what triggers you" turn into a trigger... 😬

 

[Mandy]

59 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

I didn't get why its more safe to meet up with someone if you are trying to sell it cheap rather than the price you want, and i also always feel insecure and uncomfortable if selling things, i don't think thats a female thing, but it sure does put a lot of emotions in play for some reason.

Well, that's because it's an excuse to blame it all on gender. There were a lot more discordant factors/beliefs at play. When I had that male friend check the price of the car, I felt stupid because he said I was selling it for so little, but I also was impatient for several reasons to sell it and am so happy to have it gone. Sold it a very nice guy who was not scary at all. 

 

To be honest with sharing the example I was hoping you'd look more at the discordant beliefs than the particulars. 

 

59 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

Men are favored only if you see the world very materialistically and money-wise, it seems to me. 

So lots of women accept that their worth is indeed found in their measurable intellectual and material "worth". Male or female, believing this is very discordant. That's the major point of contention, I believe. Those such as Jordan Peterson are honoring that point to some small degree which makes some of those points refreshing and attractive but the assumption of the rules of the game and the beliefs in separate selvery is still strongly "at play". Rather than questioning value, questioning the beliefs and system, women are expected to  just accept their place as second rate. "That's how it is." 

 

Stop rating, then no one gender has to be second rate. 

 

59 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

There are also many struggles that men have that women don't. We have to be the strongest etc etc. It's a tough world. .

You don't have to be anything, like I don't have to be anything either. "It's a tough world" is a belief, that always favors the strongest gender. Yet, there is no strongest gender, women supposedly have a higher natural tolerance to physical pain, and strength can only be measured in a point in time in very limited ways. The strongest man can totally let himself go or contract some disabling disease and find in himself a different kind of strength. Sounds like a cliché inspirational movie plot or something, but Source is always plotting this shit. Source loves plot twists. Source doesn't have any strength but can write the frailest female and the strongest man or the transformation and role reversal of each, vice versa, and never become either. Creativity is neither strength nor weakness but prior to both.  

 

59 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

We could be a lot more together in the "fight" if we didn't get blamed / put into a category, or thats what i believe.

 

Yes, but only you can blame. (How's that for blame?😂) Only you directly feel the emotional guidance of blame, guilt of other discordant thoughts. If someone says "YOU did that" , "WHITE PEOPLE STOLE THE NATIVE LANDS, YOU DON'T DESERVE TO ENJOY YOUR OWN BACKYARD!", you feel the discord in trying to take that upon yourself. It doesn't help the other in their discord get what they want either. The person who blames does not actually want you to suffer or to fail, they only think they'll feel better if you feel worse, because they are so disconnected from what they really do want. The emotion of revenge is legit, it feels better than hatred. That's terrifying when you think it's personal. Allow them to feel what you wish to allow yourself to feel. Not to act upon based on the separate selvery beliefs, but to feel. 

 

The point is, these are not about genders, groups of people, who done who wrong, or invalidating any history, it's just about the current emotion. 

 

 

[Mandy]

11 minutes ago, Serenity said:

When the thread about "what triggers you" turn into a trigger... 😬

😂 It's great to discuss and hash out stuff as long as you know you really want to unveil it instead of arguing a discordant point of view. Doesn't really matter though, can't run from feeling. 

[spiritual dreams]

19 hours ago, Mandy said:

There are some spectacularly creative ways to express emotion without harming anyone but none of them will occur to you if you're thinking "I can't because" or "that won't work because". 

Can you give me any examples?

[Serenity]

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

😂 It's great to discuss and hash out stuff as long as you know you really want to unveil it instead of arguing a discordant point of view. Doesn't really matter though, can't run from feeling. 

My intention is always to unveil it 😁, but I'm spending way too much of my time trying to do so... over... and over... and over... and over.... and over... and over... and over... and over.

 

And explaining the experience of sexism and not being understood adds up to how that part of the female experience is like a sisyphus burden. 😬 

 

Not to mention that at the same time, this problem concretely makes my life though.

Plus, I'm losing waaaay to many men I care for to it (connection wise).

It really gets on my nerves.

 

It's an open wound, that seem to never get some rest. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Serenity

[WhiteOwl]

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

"It's a tough world" is a belief, that always favors the strongest gender.

I didn't mean it like that at all, but sure its a belief. I meant that this life experience can be difficult, as in obstacles arise for everyone. Thats part of it.

 

I know its all discordant and i think you are right, but my discordant beliefs are still  better (and stronger) than the ones from the women mentioned 🤓 

[Reena]

When someone tries to have an opinion on mental illness without understanding it. 

 

[Mandy]

1 hour ago, Serenity said:

My intention is always to unveil it 😁, but I'm spending way too much of my time trying to do so... over... and over... and over... and over.... and over... and over... and over... and over.

 

And explaining the experience of sexism and not being understood adds up to how that part of the female experience is like a sisyphus burden. 😬 

 

Not to mention that at the same time, this problem concretely makes my life though.

Plus, I'm losing waaaay to many men I care for to it (connection wise).

It really gets on my nerves.

 

It's an open wound, that seem to never get some rest. 

 

I find that my in person interactions with men are almost always great, and I don't feel like I encounter any or hardly any misogyny in "real life". Occasionally there will be some little thing with my in laws but it's tiny.  I feel appreciated and I appreciate men (and women). It's only on the internet that I come across stuff that doesn't sit right, and maybe it's because we aren't really interacting but we are making general consensuses, sharing them, and trying to find some sort of connection that just doesn't read over a screen. I don't know. It's a weird observation I keep making lately. Do you see a difference between IRL vs online? 

 

If it feels like a never-ending thing, I always like to focus on something else that feels better or feels like it's going good. It's the best way to effortlessly change your perspective on a thing. My art teacher told us that if we've worked to hard on a painting, leave it, forget it and look at it again much later. Don't just keep making edits in frustration if you don't have any clarity on why you're doing it. 

 

 

 

 

[Mandy]

1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said:

Can you give me any examples?

Creative writing, painting, physical activity, music, or whatever Source inspires you to, even if it seems like it has nothing to do with the subject you're wanting to clear up.

[Mandy]

57 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

I didn't mean it like that at all, but sure its a belief.

👍 Gotcha, but at the same time I'd question it and I'd give thought and write about what you do want. A lot can come from just writing what you don't want down then writing the wanted aspects.

1 hour ago, WhiteOwl said:

I know its all discordant and i think you are right, but my discordant beliefs are still  better (and stronger) than the ones from the women mentioned 🤓 

 

😂

[Mandy]

16 minutes ago, Cupcake said:

When someone tries to have an opinion on mental illness without understanding it. 

 

👍 Can't understand what you fear.

[Serenity]

5 minutes ago, Mandy said:

 

I find that my in person interactions with men are almost always great, and I don't feel like I encounter any or hardly any misogyny in "real life". Occasionally there will be some little thing with my in laws but it's tiny.  I feel appreciated and I appreciate men (and women). It's only on the internet that I come across stuff that doesn't sit right, and maybe it's because we aren't really interacting but we are making general consensuses, sharing them, and trying to find some sort of connection that just doesn't read over a screen. I don't know. It's a weird observation I keep making lately. Do you see a difference between IRL vs online? 

 

If it feels like a never-ending thing, I always like to focus on something else that feels better or feels like it's going good. It's the best way to effortlessly change your perspective on a thing. My art teacher said if we've worked to hard on a painting, leave it forget it and look at it again much later. Don't just keep making edits in frustration if you don't have any clarity on why you're doing it. 

 

 

 

 

 

I remember that when I was younger, I hardly noticed both racism and misogyny. Both issues felt like they were largely problems from the past, that only would surface up in somewhat rare occasions.

 

And then, as I spent more time digging into these matters, I saw how our society is actually still deeply embedded in all of it.

 

It happened mostly at the time I first went to university and started taking a serious dive into political sciences, history and sociology. And then, I understood that the occasional misogyny and racism that I would witness or experience myself was the tree that was hiding the Amazonian forest.

 

It's all start with the definition and understanding of what actually is misogyny, and how it doesn't stop merely at taking an occasional dig at women. Like, hearing some dude making some jokes about you doing them sandwiches or something.

 

It's literally a whole social political organisation that supersede the individual since the rise of the agrarian societies. It's a system of masculine principled supremacy in nearly all things of life, where femininity (in all its forms-  so not just women) is controlled and boxed.

 

So working with that type of view reshuffles the cards. Sexism is not only occasional sandwich jokes but ranges much wider. 

 

And the infamous patriarchy that is so talked about is nothing but rooted in the mind of each individuals, in its favoring of archetypical masculine values over archetypical feminine values. The banishment of the feminine elements in the shadow creates a collective effect which gives rise to a masculine oriented collective ego that tries to put back in the shadow the feminine. Though not all of it, because the feminine is actually needed for our collective survival as a specie. And so, even in the most sexist societies, there will still be a need for women at least as baby makers and mothers. No mothers, no baby boy generated.

 

Reality is organized is both the feminine and masculine principle (yin and yang) before this duality crumbles to Oneness. So our whole conditioning as human beings born whenever on the planet on the 20th and 21th centuary has been imprinted with a preference for masculine values and a dislike for the feminine ones. And also, since women are associated with these feminine values, unconsciously the distrust and dislike humans feel towards these values that are collectively seen as inferior are projected on us women.

 

On the other hand, there is no stigma on the masculine. The masculine is recognized as being worthy and important. And it is worthy and important, but so is the feminine as well. 😬

 

Anyway, sexism for me on regular basis looks like this:

 

- Having men that fill entitled to better knowledge, better understanding, better everything,  while they are less competent than I am in a particular domain. Sometimes, it is so absurd I can't help but wonder how such audacity is possible. 

- Misogynistic views and behaviors being thrown casually as if it's part of the landscape

- Having to shrink myself/ walk on eggshells to protect a male's ego

- Being talked over

- Being ignored

- Being objectified

- Having to suffer rude, dominance behavior of all kinds, because an environment enable males to behave this way without pushing back

- Having men taking advantage of sexist collective biases to punish me unconsciously or consciously because they can't exert dominance otherwise

- Growing up, schooling biases towards the masculine perspective which was completely seen as the default perspective (but really, I should just say this goes far beyond school). Can't giggle enough at the idea of one of my middle school teacher assigning us all to read let's Pride and Prejudice instead of some regular male author. 

- Men calling a female perspective feminism, not questioning whether they also have a equivalent perspective that gets unnamed or is called normality 

- Being gaslit on the relevance of feminism

- Men expecting me to take an interest in their hobbies, talk about their favorite subjects, watch their favorite movies, be excellent at doing dude's stuff,  while they can't reciprocate and hardly even pretend to be interested in whatever they see as feminine.

- Men not consuming any to much content on feminism, yet thinking they understand it better than me (probably having read several dozen books on the matter at least, as well as countless video essays and documentaries). Or if they do so, it's like coming from reactionary figures as such a Jordan Peterson or Andrew Tate. 

 

But generally speaking, the regular interactions that I have with men are good. At least, of the surface level. I'm quite a likable woman and I dare to say that a lot of men think of me as being interesting.

 

It gets much more difficult when it comes to creating real, intimate friends. There, there is no other option than being my authentic self and it takes some well integrated feminine that most men don't have to handle the full depth of our relationship. 

 

I lost a very close one to me because of this a few months ago. It's generally speaking very difficult for some men to let a woman bring up  a shadow they've got if life circumstances demands it. I suppose he wasn't ready because the push back was more than massive. I kinda got banned with the shadow, lol. I'm not optimistic when it comes to the prospect of seeing him anytime soon. It's gonna be a tough for such a proud man to realize and admit I was right, if it ever happens.