Healing after Actualized.org

[Loop]

Self evaluated narcissism test… 😂🤣

Ah yes, totally unbiased results! Right? 😆

[honestone]

Im in the same boat ironically it took me getting back into hard drugs and actually leaving my room and experiencing the world although in a negative light to come to realize that I got fucked up by Leo's cult. I basically am now learning more about proper spiritual topics and exploring my true passions but I've had to accept I became a narcissistic delusional pricc and let myself be manipulated by bad people starting with Leo but it all made me who I am now. I'm just as lost as anyone else so im just trying to move on and accept the ego rather than destroy it.

 

[Serenity]

It's great that you were able to recognize on your own that things were not normal. One of the most pernicious aspects is not being able to validate yourself and constantly say "what if it was my fault"? What if "I had presented my points in another way" or "If I were more more conscious and skilled at the delivering my message?"I also had that one there, to be fair.

 

In the end, what I say to myself is that we have been led to see another side of reality by being confronted with his character on the forum, beyond the more moderate persona that he deploys in his videos. I am very happy to have seen the other side of the coin. If I think about it, it is very common to see highly respected authority figures in the spiritual/religious world preach ideas and values with great talent and then behave factually in a way that does not conform to these principles. History is full of such figures. But I guess we don't necessarily realize that one of our contemporaries who seems so smart, so talented to achieve results as a life coach, can actually lack embodiment to that extent and play that old trick on us without noticing. I think, in our mind, theological reflections followed by indecent behavior is not for a guy who knows about psychedelics, non-duality, contemporary philosophies and makes videos on Youtube. It's more linked to a dusty protestant reformer figure or a religious  zealot like Frollo in The Hunchback of Notre Dame.  And this, especially when he sells us his genius and his person with more skills than a carpet merchant.

 

This lack of embodiment is phenomenon that is likely to affect even more those parts of spirituality that are very much focused on cognition, logos, and the understanding of the world and the Divine in general through the mind. Thinking and speaking about spirituality is not always linked to the ability of someone to BE conscious. It even seems that it is more common that people talk about spirituality from the mind in these cases than from being. It is one of the biggest traps for everyone on the path where we are at on the collective level, and this one is set since the emergence of the ascending way towards God that emerged since the start of agrarian societies and the repression of the Divine Feminine.

 

 

 

 

[Rose]

@Serenity these are some really excellent points. This whole thing really humbled me down a lot, I am not above a religious fanatic person, or above any other person who’s ever been in a cult. I’ve fallen into a good old trap, while thinking I was also so much smarter and wiser than a religious person LOL.

[Serenity]

1 hour ago, Rose said:

@Serenity these are some really excellent points. 

Thank you, @Rose

1 hour ago, Rose said:

This whole thing really humbled me down a lot, I am not above a religious fanatic person, or above any other person who’s ever been in a cult. I’ve fallen into a good old trap, while thinking I was also so much smarter and wiser than a religious person LOL.

 

I don't think you've been sucked much in a cult dynamic if that makes you feel better. Until sometimes last year when things got massively more sour, it was an okay place to hang around on the the internet. Lots of people ran for the hills or kinda got confrontational with Leo and then left after his behavior changed as well as his take on non- duality. I suppose you are one of them and you left because it became cultish.

 

As for the rest... I'm trying to get rid altogether of the notion that there is somebody above or below me. As well as that there is other selves but the one consciousness, but that's another thing.  😅😂 (I'm making this clear just if Phil passes by and scolls me on that one 😬) 

 

While the notion of hierarchy is not fully to be discarded, it is mostly overblown in our psyches because patriarchal societies revolve around them. We rank people and their supposed worth constantly while operating from this paradigm, and being "low" in the scale gets linked with shame, vulnerability and powerlessness. So we all try to outcompete each other for status to avoid that experience, on top of the accurate social violence that comes with it.

 

Same with that strong emphasis on "being smart" as a way to give someone value or not. Thinking, and particularly "acing it" is kinda the golden standard of patriarchy and a top factor to determine status. The modern standard to determine whose the fittest.

 

Literally, Leo's way to claim alphaness is by living through this identity he carved out for himself of being the "virtuoso thinker". Everyone in there tries to outsmart the other to climb an imaginary worth ladder. 

 

The other forum helped me identifying my shadows. If I were so drawn to it, it's because there was lots of resonance within myself.  I was doing so much of that stuff myself, and being put in this environment was a blessing in disguise. Like it forced me (and keeps on forcing me) to look deeper into my psyche and identify areas that weren't properly given attention and grow these place as a faster pace than if I didn't have the Actualized.org mirror.

 

For instance... I might be criticizing Leo for his lack of embodiment but I am also very guilty of having a lag between spiritual knowledge and being the knowledge.  Fortunately, I don't have a forum with a large following, but it's still a bummer. Kinda also make it harder to throw a stone at him for it without empathizing.

 

I think maybe healing after actualized.org is found through such introspection. I also don't see the experience there as all bad, nor do I see Leo as such.  He's a loving person UNDER all the contempt and arrogance, but I came to the realization that Self-Love for me came with the need to heal and grow in a space where I wouldn't be put down with a foot on my throat by a bunch of dudes that do not want to see a woman flourish because it threatens them. It's kinda what happens to a lot of woman hanging on that website, and to me it kinda makes its usage moot for us.

[Rose]

7 minutes ago, Serenity said:

Until sometimes last year when things got massively more sour, it was an okay place to hang around on the the internet.

I disagree, for me the forum was never a good place to hang around at.

 

I think another thing that is worth mentioning, before I went to the forum, I was the most hopeful person when it came to relationships. One of my very first posts on the forum was replying to someone about how there are so many great men out there, how fulfilling relationships are, how growing yourself will guarantee you will attract a healthy partner.

 

The forum made me very bitter about men, relationships, my “value” as a woman, hopeless - “all men want from women is sex”, and women’s value only comes from her looks and youth - I did not think any of this trash before I joined the forum. 

13 minutes ago, Serenity said:

I'm trying to get rid altogether of the notion that there is somebody above or below me.

Same, when someone speaks in authoritative way from now on, or trying to tell me what is what looking down on me and matter of factly, I’m running for the hills. 

[Rose]

16 minutes ago, Serenity said:

The other forum helped me identifying my shadows. If I were so drawn to it, it's because there was lots of resonance within myself.  

This one I need to think about. I can name many reasons why I was drawn to it. I think this is very important to examine. What are some of the other reasons you found for yourself were drawing you to that community? 
 

 

19 minutes ago, Serenity said:

I think maybe healing after actualized.org is found through such introspection. I also don't see the experience there as all bad, nor do I see Leo as such.  He's a loving person UNDER all the contempt and arrogance, but I came to the realization that Self-Love for me came with the need to heal and grow in a space where I wouldn't be put down with a foot on my throat by a bunch of dudes that do not want to see a woman flourish because it threatens them. It's kinda what happens to a lot of woman hanging on that website, and to me it kinda makes its usage moot for us.

 

Do you have any tips on how to deal with the damage the forum inflicts on women? I guess first step is to never to visit it again. I truly didn’t have so much internalized misogyny before I started visiting the forum.  I feel the wound is quite deep now and I don’t know how to undo it. I am not able to have a relationship now and I don’t find any men attractive. It’s like I became asexual. 
 

I keep thinking that that’s how men are, and on actualized they were just able to express it. Like they all are secretly sexist, they all only want to get sex from you, and once you hit 30, you’re pretty much an old, useless, damaged, “run through”, full of baggage waste ONLY good for a quick bang - given that the guy is still even attracted to you for that at that point.
 

 

[Mandy]

5 minutes ago, Rose said:

I disagree, for me the forum was never a good place to hang around at.

 

I think another thing that is worth mentioning, before I went to the forum, I was the most hopeful person when it came to relationships. One of my very first posts on the forum was replying to someone about how there are so many great men out there, how fulfilling relationships are, how growing yourself will guarantee you will attract a healthy partner.

 

The forum made me very bitter about men, relationships, my “value” as a woman, hopeless - “all men want from women is sex”, and women’s value only comes from her looks and youth - I did not think any of this trash before I joined the forum. 

Same, when someone speaks in authoritative way from now on, or trying to tell me what is what looking down on me and matter of factly, I’m running for the hills. 

😌

 

You get more of what you give attention to. 

 

It always stuck me as off how very similar it is to fundamentalist religion only minus the beautiful hymns and smiling faces. The idea that Eve is evil for taking the apple, women are evil for being desirable, and the addition of the sense that women as also somehow worthless are uninteresting if they aren't to that one individual in that moment, plus the whole survival, competition of the fittest and bias narrative. 🤢 

 

Bleeeehhhh. 

 

Nice to be away from it. Clarifying too. 

[Serenity]

Just now, Rose said:

I disagree, for me the forum was never a good place to hang around at.

 

 

Ah, yes. From this point of view you are definitely right, the forum was always full of toxic rhetoric and the outsmarting one another dynamic was always prevalent there. But there were some really interesting people that weren't part of that, so I suppose this is why I said it was an okay place. And also, I am comparing with how much worse it's has become as of now, so relativity made me go for the word okay I suppose. 😁

 

5 minutes ago, Rose said:

I think another thing that is worth mentioning, before I went to the forum, I was the most hopeful person when it came to relationships. One of my very first posts on the forum was replying to someone about how there are so many great men out there, how fulfilling relationships are, how growing yourself will guarantee you will attract a healthy partner.

 

The forum made me very bitter about men, relationships, my “value” as a woman, hopeless - “all men want from women is sex”, and women’s value only comes from her looks and youth - I did not think any of this trash before I joined the forum. 

 

There is this video from Contrapoints named "Incels" where Natalie talks about how incels language started rooting in her perception while doing research for the video IRC. 

 

It's kinda the same phenomenon. I also got affected by reading the threads, but a part of me never fully subscribed to it and I knew these guys (including Leo) were clueless about what can be a real relationship between a man and a woman. Though, even with that, I also experienced the same deception and disgust as you did.

 

But it triggered mostly a lot of anger. To me, men are supposed to be protective towards women and seeing what was told there made them look as out of alignement predators harming women for their benefits. Which is what a lot of them do. But not really because they are evil, but because they are too afraid to love and feel unworthy of it within. And that's kinda a sad thing, but lol, I thought that if this would be pointed to them, they'd try to correct it. I mean, some got interested in what was said by the women in there, but lots of them, including Leo, only met us with... contempt, arrogance and a desire to put us down. In a systemic way.

 

I have this book from Brené Brown about emotions, and she says that out of all emotions, contempt is the worse to deal with because it's so hard to break through it. It's mostly used by dominant people towards people they see as under where the internalized shame the dominant has for itself is projected on the other as a coping mechanism. It's like a thick veil of low vibrational irrational garbage you can't pierce. And this is up to them to do that work and not you.

 

After being naive for so long and hoping it could be solved, I just decided that I'd only engage with people without that limitation from now on. As a question of alignment, time, preservation of my mental health and desire to grow as a person with people who'd respect me.

[Serenity]

20 minutes ago, Rose said:

This one I need to think about. I can name many reasons why I was drawn to it. I think this is very important to examine. What are some of the other reasons you found for yourself were drawing you to that community? 

Lots and lots of internalized misogyny, self-hatred, shame, and desire to transform myself to finally become worthy.  I also grew up in a hyper competitive environment, grew up with an absent father and was left only with toxic masculinity as a model.

I was also hyper identified with masculine values, and shared three core aspect of Leo's main identifications which are being "the smart one", "the spiritual one", and the "special one".

 

You can check out through ChatGPT for archetypical patriarchal values, as well as feminine ones to see where you might have got shadows. Yin and yang qualities are also helpful.

28 minutes ago, Rose said:

Do you have any tips on how to deal with the damage the forum inflicts on women? I guess first step is to never to visit it again. I truly didn’t have so much internalized misogyny before I started visiting the forum.  I feel the wound is quite deep now and I don’t know how to undo it. I am not able to have a relationship now and I don’t find any men attractive. It’s like I became asexual. 
 

I keep thinking that that’s how men are, and on actualized they were just able to express it. Like they all are secretly sexist, they all only want to get sex from you, and once you hit 30, you’re pretty much an old, useless, damaged, “run through”, full of baggage waste ONLY good for a quick bang - given that the guy is still even attracted to you for that at that point.
 

 

Take the power away from them by seeing it for what it is. Focus on understanding the root cause for the misogyny + the posturing and then it just looks very sad.

 

Get an abundance mindset and start looking for environments where men do not have the same ego vulnerability.

 

I got a story for you by the way.

 

Last month exactly, I went to the Netherlands to go through an Ayahuasca ceremony. There I met a guy who came  with the sole purpose of healing his inability to feel. He looked very sad, and said he tried Ayahuasca twice before and it didn't do anything for him. He came there because he was reading Gabor Maté latest book, the Myth of Normal, and Maté suggested there for people to reconnect with themselves through the plant spirit.

 

This guy was just great. Endlessly protective, no ideas in the back of his head to try to take advantage of, deeply interested in my vulnerability and the vulnerability of others, respectful of emotions and all that.

 

I didn't spend a lot of time with him, but during our conversation, he said something that made me very happy, I quote "to be the protective man my community needs, I have to be able to feed myself with more than just conditional love for myself, I have to be able to feed myself with unconditional love because that's the only way it can work".

 

He told me that he hoped to find a wife to start a family in the future and spoke of his concern to do everything right from the beginning. I heard him talk about obstetrical violence, and his concern about making his relationship with his wife and children work. He was also very open about toxic masculinity and told me his story with it and how for years he tried to navigate through a society that rewards it.

 

So he was kinda the anti regular Actualized.org forum member guy. Meeting him was really healing. 🙂

[Reena]

13 hours ago, Rose said:

This one I need to think about. I can name many reasons why I was drawn to it. I think this is very important to examine. What are some of the other reasons you found for yourself were drawing you to that community? 
 

 

 

Do you have any tips on how to deal with the damage the forum inflicts on women? I guess first step is to never to visit it again. I truly didn’t have so much internalized misogyny before I started visiting the forum.  I feel the wound is quite deep now and I don’t know how to undo it. I am not able to have a relationship now and I don’t find any men attractive. It’s like I became asexual. 
 

I keep thinking that that’s how men are, and on actualized they were just able to express it. Like they all are secretly sexist, they all only want to get sex from you, and once you hit 30, you’re pretty much an old, useless, damaged, “run through”, full of baggage waste ONLY good for a quick bang - given that the guy is still even attracted to you for that at that point.
 

 

You could try to detach yourself from Actualized.org. Also it's just a forum and not the whole world. There are many wonderful people out there, just not on Actualized. First step is to not blame yourself because Actualized.org has an ingrained culture of "blame the woman for everything," don't give into that. Second step is to meet people in your local area and you'll see they are very different from people on Actualized.  

 

I don't know if you're the user called no_name but it seems you visit the forum often if you are them. Visiting the forum is absorbing its harmful energy. If you want to visit, do so occasionally. 

Best healer is time. Over time you'll gradually forget Actualized.org and a new path will begin. Healing starts with opportunity and space. Make good use of this opportunity that you are no longer in a toxic place and use this opportunity to enjoy things you love doing and exploring. 

Initially you'll think a lot about Actualized.org and that's understandable but as time goes by you'll feel better off without it and you won't feel the need to visit the forum. 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

I have a certain empathy for foolishness in other people because I look at my own life and realize I too do certain foolish patterns for way too long and don’t reform myself fast enough even though I know what I’m doing is stupid.  That’s no excuse though.  Today I’m taking initial action in something I’ve wanted to do for a long time that I’ve struggled with.  There’s kind of a crude saying that says “if you want to get over someone get under someone”.  The same is true for a community or place.  If you want to get over that community, join another one that helps you empty yourself of and get over the first one.  Just make sure you don’t get sucked into toxicity in the new community if there is any.  You have to think for yourself and beware of groupthink if that isn’t healthy for you.  

Edited February 6, 2023 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:04 PM, Orb said:

Your deconstruction of his behavior was really good 👍. It's alright, most of us here fell for that too. But the healing starts wits first noticing something was iffy about that whole leo thing.

It’s a huge lesson if you look at others’ shortcomings constructively.  It makes me very empathetic instead of angry now that I’ve detached myself from giving others authority over me.  I realize that I did all this too — everything I criticize someone else for —  although maybe not as severely in the way they did it or the area they did it.  It makes me sad when someone including me had everything and huge potential  but then lost it due to lessons being ignored time and time again.  Changing oneself is one of the hardest things to do especially if you find incentive not to — or incentive to put it off until tomorrow.  

Edited February 6, 2023 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

On 1/26/2023 at 5:57 PM, Rose said:

It is believed by most specialist that narcissistic personality disorder is impossible to be be cured. 

What somewhat cured me of my immature narcissism at a younger age is social failure and then realizing I needed to change myself to survive.  Development work has helped me in this area too as well as learning how to be in relationships in a healthier way.   One of the worst things that can happen to a narcissist is they’re rewarded for it.  I was punished for it which was kinda good in hindsight.

[Joseph Maynor]

On 1/27/2023 at 1:00 PM, Rose said:

Narcissist is built out of very deep shame and self hate.

Narcissism and toxic humility are self-soothing mechanisms for social insecurity.  You have to not be socially insecure to truly be empathetic to other people and not be walking around feeling wounded.  I’m not talking about toxic humility which is also based on the same but in a different direction.   Acting superior or inferior  is a self-soothing mechanism for social insecurity.  Both are licking their wounds.  If you’re licking your wounds all the time you aren’t in a position to love someone else — you don’t even love yourself.  You feel defensive towards social relations.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Joseph Maynor

[MetaSage]

What kind of nonsense is this? Exchanging one cult for another. Groupthink at its best! Pretending like one's shit doesn't smell, using spiritual-sounding words to look knowledgeable and carefully concealing the limits of one's understanding. You'd appreciate some sincerity first.

Edited February 11, 2023 by MetaSage

[Rose]

1 hour ago, MetaSage said:

what kind of nonsense is this? exchanging one cult for another. groupthink at its best! pretending like one's shit doesn't smell, using spiritual-sounding words to look knowledgeable and carefully concealing the limits of one's understanding. you'd appreciate some honesty first.

What part of this is nonsense? Do you have some useful input and not just mindless insults and an emotional tantrum? 

Edited February 11, 2023 by Rose

[MetaSage]

5 minutes ago, Rose said:

What part of this is nonsense? Do you have some useful input and not just mindless insults and an emotional tantrum? 

no.

[Reena]

4 hours ago, MetaSage said:

what kind of nonsense is this? exchanging one cult for another. groupthink at its best! pretending like one's shit doesn't smell, using spiritual-sounding words to look knowledgeable and carefully concealing the limits of one's understanding. you'd appreciate some honesty first.

 

Leo displays a lot of cult like vibes. People like Leo that's why they stick around. If Leo was a boring guy, nobody would care. Leo is an example of what charisma does to people, it gets them hooked like crack. Yet it makes them blind to his blindspots. Leo has zero value for his own followers. Leo embodies 0% of what he teaches, which is a total lack of integrity.. 

Leo's content is helpful just like any other criminal whose drugs are valuable to a drug addict. Of course he had to be helpful or else how could he get people hooked to him. 

But Leo demonstrates strong contradiction between concepts and practice. He talks down to people but calls himself God and love. 

Leo should be the last person to talk about love. He gives a strong cultish vibe in every word 

 

This man is playing games with everyone's mind, it's just that people are too soft to notice it. They are seeing him through rose tinted glasses. 

They haven't experienced Leo's hate. When they experience Leo's hate, they will see how bogus he is.. 

Everything he shows is a farce. He has zero love. He could care less if someone dropped on their face or disappeared from planet earth. 

For him self actualization is just a business, people's lives being immaterial. Such a man is going to be harmful one way or another. 

 

Even the psychedelics he is pushing, that's because he has a course lined up to sell. 

 

Leo is a chameleon who camouflages expertly. Tell him that he doesn't care and he will instantly flip his language to make you feel like you're special and valuable. He knows how to speak, that's all he knows. 

His content is all copied and generic, taking from Eastern cultures, concepts of consciousness and repackaging them to western audiences and making it sound like those are his original ideas, absolutely nothing is original about him, not even a single sentence. He is a master at advertising himself and actualized is one of the biggest cons out there, even though it's a helpful con but it's still a con nevertheless. And what starts as a con will soon meet the dust, because something that didn't start in good intent won't end in good intent and you'll gradually witness actualized Org going down the pipe and ending in disaster waiting to happen, a glorious disaster, it will eventually show what ego does to the ego. 

 

[MetaSage]

@Cupcake  I may sound judgmental and you sound pretty resentful and reactionary. Nothing wrong with that, but overall extreme judgments -- whether positive or negative -- are rarely honest and shouldn't be trusted. Adios.