Vegetarianism and spirituality are holding hands on the Path

[Kevin]

So my thinking about this is quite a bit different. I believe there are many nutrients in animal products that we cannot get from plants. Nutrients like heme iron, Carnitine, creatine and many others. Organ meats especially are very nutrient dense. Beef liver is the most nutrient dense food on the planet, but it does taste pretty gross.

 

Speaking from my personal life on this, I was raised vegan until I was 15 then I started trying animal products.  In high school I spent about 2 months eating only meat eggs and butter and I felt amazing. And for about 6 months of this year I was eating almost completely meat eggs and liver and I felt great. And my strength increased at a much faster rate then before. More importantly I felt mentally sharper and measurably happier.

 

I do agree we could live without animal foods but if we were to be doing that would we be thriving? For me I know I would not be thriving.

 

My only doubt on the topic is that I wouldn’t want to be killed and eaten so I feel a bit bad about that. But then I look at the animal kingdom and there is killing and eating everywhere so I really don’t know about the morality of it all.

[arjuna]

The dali lama eats meat.

[arjuna]

Some cultures believe that eating an animal is the best thing you could do for it, as you are elevating its karma to a human level, which is above animal, consciousness wise, by involving the animal in aiding you by giving you strength, its seen as the highest purpose an animal can serve.  But thats probably also dependent on the intentions and means of killing the animal.  I dont usually eat meat because the industry is ghastly, but i dont think eating an animal is bad on its own.

Edited December 11, 2022 by arjuna

[Cathal]

On 12/11/2022 at 6:34 PM, arjuna said:

The dali lama eats meat.

Being enlightened doesn't mean you suddenly comprehend japenese and spanish, nor do you comprehend the impact on the planet by eating meat.

 

There is no 'bad' karma for eating an animal, there is no bad karma inherent in anything. But once you become aware that you no longer need to eat meat, that you can easily supplement anything your body needs, then what remains is you are choosing to cause suffering because you prefer your comfort over the right action. Now, karma comes in, cognitive dissonance arises, you start lieng and bullshitting all kinds of things 'well this holy man does it so I can do it' ' this culture believes this so I can do it' 'i'll be sick if i don't eat it even though it's just something i choose to believe instead of actually researching it'

I mean cmon man, grow up and make your own choices

 

Make your own heart your authority

[Cathal]

On 12/10/2022 at 10:22 PM, Kevin said:

So my thinking about this is quite a bit different. I believe there are many nutrients in animal products that we cannot get from plants. Nutrients like heme iron, Carnitine, creatine and many others. Organ meats especially are very nutrient dense. Beef liver is the most nutrient dense food on the planet, but it does taste pretty gross.

 

Speaking from my personal life on this, I was raised vegan until I was 15 then I started trying animal products.  In high school I spent about 2 months eating only meat eggs and butter and I felt amazing. And for about 6 months of this year I was eating almost completely meat eggs and liver and I felt great. And my strength increased at a much faster rate then before. More importantly I felt mentally sharper and measurably happier.

 

I do agree we could live without animal foods but if we were to be doing that would we be thriving? For me I know I would not be thriving.

 

My only doubt on the topic is that I wouldn’t want to be killed and eaten so I feel a bit bad about that. But then I look at the animal kingdom and there is killing and eating everywhere so I really don’t know about the morality of it all.

 

There is no right or wrong, there is no good or bad, but step on a baby and see how it feels inside of you? Your mind can only weigh things in duality, use your heart and ask yourself is this really okay what i'm doing? You have so much power to change the world just through your decisions to the right thing, even if everyone around you eats meat, you stick your ground

 

So the questions you're mainly asking are can I be healthy and thriving at my peak performance without animal products? I think, if you really want to know the answer to that you will have to research quite a bit yourself, if you really care about the suffering of animals and planets then i'm sure you will find the answer - but the research is pretty obvious as to regards to that, we as people just have to do it the right way and take the right supplements to avoid problems

[Mandy]

I think that the avoidance (of eating animal products or whatever else) mindset leads to getting stuck in the emotion of guilt. Then it's not just the consumption of animal products but extends to driving, any sort of travel, anything that makes any sort of environmental impact, plastic use, etc, then we move to having emotions of anger at others for not doing it right, blame at the world for not being better, self blame, etc.  We cut ourselves off from out own dreams and inspiration in avoidance of doing harm. I think it's a lot faster to just inspire people to open-mindedly try and see how they feel without red meat or dairy or eggs. I don't believe that we can possibly suffer enough to heal or help a single thing. Inspiration on the other hand, moves mountains. 

[arjuna]

7 hours ago, Cathal said:

Being enlightened doesn't mean you suddenly comprehend japenese and spanish, nor do you comprehend the impact on the planet by eating meat.

 

There is no 'bad' karma for eating an animal, there is no bad karma inherent in anything. But once you become aware that you no longer need to eat meat, that you can easily supplement anything your body needs, then what remains is you are choosing to cause suffering because you prefer your comfort over the right action. Now, karma comes in, cognitive dissonance arises, you start lieng and bullshitting all kinds of things 'well this holy man does it so I can do it' ' this culture believes this so I can do it' 'i'll be sick if i don't eat it even though it's just something i choose to believe instead of actually researching it'

I mean cmon man, grow up and make your own choices

 

Make your own heart your authority

People in tibet, because of the difficulty in growing a variety of vegetables, have a hard time not eating meat because their bodies have become so reliant on it.  Some people really cant be healthy as vegetarians.

[Cathal]

4 hours ago, Mandy said:

I think that the avoidance (of eating animal products or whatever else) mindset leads to getting stuck in the emotion of guilt. Then it's not just the consumption of animal products but extends to driving, any sort of travel, anything that makes any sort of environmental impact, plastic use, etc, then we move to having emotions of anger at others for not doing it right, blame at the world for not being better, self blame, etc.  We cut ourselves off from out own dreams and inspiration in avoidance of doing harm. I think it's a lot faster to just inspire people to open-mindedly try and see how they feel without red meat or dairy or eggs. I don't believe that we can possibly suffer enough to heal or help a single thing. Inspiration on the other hand, moves mountains. 

You feel guilt because you are still identified to your cravings as yourself. In the case of anger, there is just view attachment to not eating meat. This is what Buddha talks about with wrong view and that's why there's always failure in educating people so we tend to give up and think 'I shouldn't try to help, it doesn't work' but the reality is there is an energy of anger from subtleto gross (think blue haired screaming femboy) to protect ourselves from being wrong and take elation in being right, this is delusional.  I agree on the inspiration, but to be an inspiration you cannot be insecure about what you're saying because you will never really say it and touch anyones heart, because it's not really deeply in your heart but created in thought form like all wrong views, @arjuna Like I said, I myself would devour a cow for my survival, but I sit here 20 mins from a supermarket overwhelmed with abundance and health options, why would I then choose to eat an animal if I don't need to? Because, it tastes good, and I prefer the pleasure of my taste and my social comforts over the suffering from the cow - my emotional centers have not really been formed enough because I am not confronted with that suffering - the antidote here is to investigate the truth about these things and give up the lies that bind us to our comforts and causes suffering to ourselves and so many other beings.

[arjuna]

3 hours ago, Cathal said:

You feel guilt because you are still identified to your cravings as yourself. In the case of anger, there is just view attachment to not eating meat. This is what Buddha talks about with wrong view and that's why there's always failure in educating people so we tend to give up and think 'I shouldn't try to help, it doesn't work' but the reality is there is an energy of anger from subtleto gross (think blue haired screaming femboy) to protect ourselves from being wrong and take elation in being right, this is delusional.  I agree on the inspiration, but to be an inspiration you cannot be insecure about what you're saying because you will never really say it and touch anyones heart, because it's not really deeply in your heart but created in thought form like all wrong views, @arjuna Like I said, I myself would devour a cow for my survival, but I sit here 20 mins from a supermarket overwhelmed with abundance and health options, why would I then choose to eat an animal if I don't need to? Because, it tastes good, and I prefer the pleasure of my taste and my social comforts over the suffering from the cow - my emotional centers have not really been formed enough because I am not confronted with that suffering - the antidote here is to investigate the truth about these things and give up the lies that bind us to our comforts and causes suffering to ourselves and so many other beings.

Wtf is that about the "blue haired screaming femboy"?

That sounds a little bit more than mildly judgemental/offensively stereotypical.