Phil Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 On 12/4/2022 at 3:12 PM, Joseph Maynor said: Spiritual gurus often sell happiness and peace because they appeal to people's egos to hook them in just like anyone else in sales appeals to people's egos to hook them in. But the reality is, nothing changes after you become spiritually enlightened. The only thing that changes is your perspective about what happens. So, you do have a deeper acceptance which prevents a lot of unconstructive emotions and thoughts from arising or lingering too long. But everything is still the same too. Your life has always been your life and always will be your life. The cycle, the chaos between positive and negative emotions will always be here for you and me. This idea that a spiritually enlightened person is happy and at peace all the time is a total myth and a kind of marketing ploy. The inner peace I'm talking about is when you're ok at a deep level no matter what emotions you feel or even what's happening. It's a groundedness that goes beyond ego but also makes space for ego too. (Yes, I still do work in law offices but as an independent contractor now. I might be going back to work in a law firm as an employee but still moonlight as a contractor.) The mind can not be where it has not yet been. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Phil said: The mind can not be where it has not yet been. There's no question that work in spiritual enlightenment has improved my emotions and health. But I'm still the same too. It's the same experience just recontextualized or uncontextualized (it depends on ideas present or not). Thus, everything is still here including all the things the ego dislikes, e.g., pain, confrontation, survival, fighting, suffering, anger, rage, death, material existence, the past, memory, etc. It's the ego that wants to be blissed out and happy all the time -- of course! But that's not reality. That's a wish. That's an idea in the mind. If you have this, then someone else is probably supporting you financially to the extent that you can have these more of the time. But if you're the person who has to go out into the world and make a living, life is never this easy, nor should it be. It's best (from my perspective) to let the negative stuff be here and then learn to deal with that part of life as well as pursuing no-ego. Edited December 16, 2022 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 @Joseph Maynor Is two cents wanted? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjuna Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 3 hours ago, Phil said: The mind can not be where it has not yet been. Can you unpack that? What do you mean by "mind" exactly? It can never be/go anywhere...because its already everywhere/nowhere? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjuna Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 37 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: There's no question that work in spiritual enlightenment has improved my emotions and health. But I'm still the same too. It's the same experience just recontextualized or uncontextualized (it depends on ideas present or not). Thus, everything is still here including all the things the ego dislikes, e.g., pain, confrontation, survival, fighting, suffering, anger, rage, death, material existence, the past, memory, etc. It's the ego that wants to be blissed out and happy all the time -- of course! But that's not reality. That's a wish. That's an idea in the mind. If you have this, then someone else is probably supporting you financially to the extent that you can have these more of the time. But if you're the person who has to go out into the world and make a living, life is never this easy, nor should it be. It's best (from my perspective) to let the negative stuff be here and then learn to deal with that part of life as well as pursuing no-ego. Spiritual materialism. I dont think you really get it. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 23 minutes ago, arjuna said: Can you unpack that? What do you mean by "mind" exactly? It can never be/go anywhere...because its already everywhere/nowhere? Precisely because of the apparent nature of the finite mind there isn’t an equivalent. So analogously it’s like sharing from one’s trip to the peninsula of Hawaii. One who’s been to Hawaii might notice something is off there. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjuna Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Phil said: Precisely because of the apparent nature of the finite mind there isn’t an equivalent. So analogously it’s like sharing from one’s trip to the peninsula of Hawaii. One who’s been to Hawaii might notice something is off there. So...you cant explain what you meant by the mind cant go somewhere it hasnt been. Does that mean it cant ever go anywhere...that seems to be the implication...has it ever been anywhere? Or do you just mean you cant know what you havent learned.. leaving open the possibility that you can learn. You cant speculate? You cant say anything about "enlightenment" if you are not "enlightened" yet? Edited December 16, 2022 by arjuna Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, arjuna said: Or do you just mean you cant know what you havent learned.. leaving open the possibility that you can learn. Pretty much, but more so direct experience as compared to learning & knowing. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjuna Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, Phil said: Pretty much, but more so direct experience as compared to learning & knowing. Ok....it was just phrased a bit weird...to me Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 16, 2022 Share Posted December 16, 2022 16 minutes ago, arjuna said: to me 😂 nice. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Phil said: @Joseph Maynor Is two cents wanted? I already know what you're going to say Phil after following you for 5 years. Let me explain me: I assume everyone has a different and unique enlightenment if they have any at all. I allow for others to differ regarding enlightenment and make a philosophy of that so I can practice it. It's good to ask first before giving advice on enlightenment for this reason, as you did which I love. An enlightenment teacher is helping you find your enlightenment from my point of view. You may disagree with me, and that's your right coming from your enlightenment. And you also have a right to disagree with anything I wrote above which is also coming from your enlightenment from my perspective. I don't believe there's a one-sized-fits-all solution to the problem or question of enlightenment. Edited December 17, 2022 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 8 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said: I already know what you're going to say What am I going to say? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjuna Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Phil said: What am I going to say? I knew you were gonna ask that Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Phil said: What am I going to say? It’s just a thought. I don’t exist. Am I missing a piece? Edited December 17, 2022 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 @Joseph Maynor You’re not missing a piece, but no, that’s not what I would’ve said. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Phil said: @Joseph Maynor You’re not missing a piece, but no, that’s not what I would’ve said. Now that we've come this far, go ahead and tell me. We've opened Pandora's Box. Edited December 17, 2022 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 17, 2022 Share Posted December 17, 2022 @Joseph Maynor Why assume? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted December 20, 2022 Share Posted December 20, 2022 On 12/17/2022 at 9:53 AM, Phil said: @Joseph Maynor Why assume? Exactly. Interesting. Sometimes there's not anything wrong. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted December 22, 2022 Author Share Posted December 22, 2022 Sometimes when someone tells me to just focus on what I want instead it feels like gaslighting & bypassing because I know the trauma needs to desperately be processed. Someone who always ‘looks on the bright side’ all the time, but I can feel the unprocessed emotions when I look into their eyes, there is a lot of repressed anger I had to deal with because of this toxic positivity mindset. I was shown anger was bad, sadness was bad, fear is bad, and that I should just look on the bright side. My parents were allowed to be angery, I wasn’t. Sadness was seen as terrible and everyone had to surround you and overwhelm you with help, and talking about fear is just avoided entirely, ‘you shouldn’t focus on that, repress that and focus on (toxic)positivity instead’. Fuck that, the beast is coming out to play in the light. Bright the light down into the darkness, Dance with Moonlight. Quote Mention Ten thousand tears, One Belly Laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted December 23, 2022 Author Share Posted December 23, 2022 Repression feels like gaslighting yourself, one deny’s their own emotion, I was gaslit to not allow my own emotions, then continued gaslighting myself later. This was how I was taught how to deal with emotions. 🖤 I remember always fighting to not let people, mainly my parents define me, I was fighting against them denying my feelings. Growing up with an autism diagnosis was not very fun for me on top of this. I was bullied a lot, in Jr. High getting kicked in the nuts everyday by people who called me their friend. Then in high school getting in a car accident that nearly killed me. Sometimes it feels like the reason it happened is because I wasn’t able to assert myself, I let someone drive who I shouldn’t have. They were bugging me to let them, but I repressed my anger which would have asserted to them ‘No’. Life isn’t just about ‘Yes, Yes, Yes’, if you deny the ‘No’ you are gonna be struggling with toxic positivity. Either door-matting for others because anger ‘isn’t empathic’ or ‘isn’t enlightened’ or ‘isn’t kind’. Anger can be kind if you embrace it. Or gaslighting others into their problems not being problems, their anger & sadness & fear should just be ignored. You cannot be gaslit if you don’t gaslight yourself, and you won’t gaslight others if you stop gaslighting yourself. All expression is valid, don’t just run away into the Sun & burn up, reflect off the the Light, shimmer down on the child inside. Quote Mention Ten thousand tears, One Belly Laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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