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Is It Really “Ok” to Make Money off of Spirituality?


Mandy
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4 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Lester Retsel You said you thought life coaching was a scam in general. 

Like I said, I had sessions one on one with a teacher but the price was extremely reasonable, I met him in a class I'd signed up for, and we met with no charge beforehand to discuss what it would be like.  And he was vetting me as much as I was him, he won't work with just anyone who will pay him, only if he feels he has something to offer and they are in a place to recieve that particular thing. 

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2 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

Yeah, I think it is.  That's different from making money off spirituality, I mean thats a very broad thing to say.

So what's the difference between helping someone with tips to better an area in their life, creativity, meditation, diet, and spirituality? Doesn't it all kinda flow into one? 

2 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

Honestly, it just depends on what you charge and what it entails. 

What if it's just a glorified conversation, that might have the potential to really change someone's views or blow through some discordant beliefs, or might not, cause it's also kinda up to them. And so what range is fair to charge for an hour? 

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1 minute ago, Lester Retsel said:

Like I said, I had sessions one on one with a teacher but the price was extremely reasonable, I met him in a class I'd signed up for, and we met with no charge beforehand to discuss what it would be like.  And he was vetting me as much as I was him, he won't work with just anyone who will pay him, only if he feels he has something to offer and they are in a place to recieve that particular thing. 

That's awesome. I got to rent a Air B and B on the ocean peak summer season with a private beach for 15$ a night (had to clean it though) for solo retreats several times because the owners didn't want to rent it out during covid and wanted to offer it to people they knew who would really appreciate it. I'm really thankful for that opportunity, but I'd also be willing to pay a reasonable price for it. I don't expect my great experience to be the norm for everyone. I don't expect people paying oceanfront property taxes to offer that. 

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7 minutes ago, Mandy said:

So what's the difference between helping someone with tips to better an area in their life, creativity, meditation, diet, and spirituality? Doesn't it all kinda flow into one? 

What if it's just a glorified conversation, that might have the potential to really change someone's views or blow through some discordant beliefs, or might not, cause it's also kinda up to them. And so what range is fair to charge for an hour? 

Do you really honestly think you are in a position to tell someone what they need in any aspect of their life?  Do you think you have the skill to be completely objective, leave all your personal bias out of it, and just see what that person needs? What do you think qualifies you to do this?  

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17 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

Do you really honestly think you are in a position to tell someone what they need in any aspect of their life?  

Honestly, I'm not sure. I don't think that anyone needs to be told what they need, but sometimes a focused conversation can make what we want much more clear to us. And it can inspire us and give us the confidence and support to really start a meditation practice or go do the meditation retreat or start journaling, etc.  No one really needs that, but it can help. At times I can channel that or bring light to stuff people aren't seeing about themselves quite clearly, I legitimately love this stuff and the enthusiasm is mostly when insights hit, or I know what to say without knowing. Other times I still get in the way trying to please people or in self referential thinking, worrying about my performance or their reactions to me. I think I'd currently prefer to practice without charging until that stops coming up. But it's also really easy to *not* do that and just go about my paying job because it pays, I have absolutely no issues or qualms about making money doing it, no one criticizes me for it, and I have payments to make. 

 

I don't think there will ever be any qualification that means anything. 

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8 minutes ago, Mandy said:

 

Honestly, I'm not sure. I don't think that anyone needs to be told what they need, but sometimes a focused conversation can make what we want much more clear to us. And it can inspire us and give us the confidence and support to really start a meditation practice or go do the meditation retreat or start journaling, etc.  No one really needs that, but it can help. At times I can channel that or bring light to stuff people aren't seeing about themselves quite clearly, I legitimately love this stuff and the enthusiasm is mostly when insights hit, or I know what to say without knowing. Other times I still get in the way trying to please people or in self referential thinking, worrying about my performance or their reactions to me. I think I'd currently prefer to practice without charging until that stops coming up. But it's also really easy to *not* do that and just go about my paying job because it pays, I have absolutely no issues or qualms about making money doing it, no one criticizes me for it, and I have payments to make. 

 

I don't think there will ever be any qualification that means anything. 

Well, no qualifications will ever make anyone infallible, but, like with professional therapists for example, there are checks and balances, one can't simply declare themselves a therapist and then charge money for sessions.  Anyone can declare themselves a life coach and do so.  And whatever level of honesty you might bring, there are many who do not, who don't even have the capacity to.

Another issue is, can you be consistent, can you be in the zone for it to keep the appointment you already made?  If you're having a bad day can you do it just as well as if you're having a good day?  Can you do it for someone who annoys you and bring the same thing you do with someone you like?  How much of a pleaser are you, and how much of that will inform what you tell someone?  What are YOUR real motivations?  Is YOUR idea of "the good life" the same as theirs?  Can you understand someone with totally different goals and values than yours?  And would you work with anyone who wants to or would you be selective?

Edited by Lester Retsel
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27 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

Well, no qualifications will ever make anyone infallible, but, like with professional therapists for example, there are checks and balances, one can't simply declare themselves a therapist and then charge money for sessions.  Anyone can declare themselves a life coach and do so.  And whatever level of honesty you might bring, there are many who do not, who don't even have the capacity to.

I know what you mean. I'm part of a life coach group and there's a lot of achiever "be the best," outpace the competition, repress everything kinda stuff out there. People are silly, and I think that when we put out intentions out to help in that way Source is like OK, HERE'S ALL YOUR CRAP. Until we're really deeply ok with being silly, and somehow aren't anymore, but still are. And in a way that's awesome but in another way, if you repress stuff it's really awful. It's really apparent. You feel something is off, they do. I like to avoid that, cause I know where it leads. But I also know that some of the most rewarding fastly moving insights came when I had the gall to start talking about spirituality on youtube, and that seemed really off in a way at the time, (had no qualifications) until I decided one day to start writing down what I wanted and it felt really right.  And when I got in front of the camera when I said something off, I really felt it, and I realized I didn't think that anymore. And that was the gold. 

27 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

Another issue is, can you be consistent, can you be in the zone for it to keep the appointment you already made?  If you're having a bad day can you do it just as well as if you're having a good day? 

I don't like schedules so this does not thrill me, no. 😆 Engaging conversations seem to focus me faster than anything else, so I don't think it would be much of an issue. 

27 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

Can you do it for someone who annoys you and bring the same thing you do with someone you like? 

People annoy me on the internet but not as much at all in person. I'm really good at seeing the best in people, especially in person. I can well separate my own annoyance with seeing what the discord is. Often we get annoyed when someone is repressing something but we don't know this. I'm good at seeing through that, and seeing the repression. 

27 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

How much of a pleaser are you, and how much of that will inform what you tell someone?  

I don't think it would inform what I told them, but it's then later thinking about if I helped them enough or if they liked and received what I offered, and pondering about that that gets in the way. I'm also unpracticed at really digging at stuff. Partly for that reason, but going where things might get messy is exactly where the real work is done. People are often shy and don't want to share what's really bothering them, and it takes a while to get to stuff. Other times people are already great to talk to and have all their questions right there and well thought out. 

27 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

What are YOUR real motivations?  Is YOUR idea of "the good life" the same as theirs?  

I want to work with people, and I love nothing more than talking about this stuff. It's effortless, it energizes me. My job is fun, but kinda takes a lot out of me too. I wonder if that's saying something. I don't think there's a good life, I think life is good, and it's just realizing that that leads to a good life better than you could ever plan or imagine of goal set for. 

27 minutes ago, Lester Retsel said:

Can you understand someone with totally different goals and values than yours?  And would you work with anyone who wants to or would you be selective?

Great questions. I have never considered the last one. What I said above kinda covers the first. I would never dismiss what someone wants, but maybe dig deeper to see exactly where it's coming from. I think that great lives can look incredibly different and diversity is awesome. I think I would work with anyone once. If I thought their motivations were really off and that I couldn't do anything with that I would decline. 

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34 minutes ago, Mandy said:

I know what you mean. I'm part of a life coach group and there's a lot of achiever "be the best," outpace the competition, repress everything kinda stuff out there. People are silly, and I think that when we put out intentions out to help in that way Source is like OK, HERE'S ALL YOUR CRAP. Until we're really deeply ok with being silly, and somehow aren't anymore, but still are. And in a way that's awesome but in another way, if you repress stuff it's really awful. It's really apparent. You feel something is off, they do. I like to avoid that, cause I know where it leads. But I also know that some of the most rewarding fastly moving insights came when I had the gall to start talking about spirituality on youtube, and that seemed really off in a way at the time, (had no qualifications) until I decided one day to start writing down what I wanted and it felt really right.  And when I got in front of the camera when I said something off, I really felt it, and I realized I didn't think that anymore. And that was the gold. 

I don't like schedules so this does not thrill me, no. 😆 Engaging conversations seem to focus me faster than anything else, so I don't think it would be much of an issue. 

People annoy me on the internet but not as much at all in person. I'm really good at seeing the best in people, especially in person. I can well separate my own annoyance with seeing what the discord is. Often we get annoyed when someone is repressing something but we don't know this. I'm good at seeing through that, and seeing the repression. 

I don't think it would inform what I told them, but it's then later thinking about if I helped them enough or if they liked and received what I offered, and pondering about that that gets in the way. I'm also unpracticed at really digging at stuff. Partly for that reason, but going where things might get messy is exactly where the real work is done. People are often shy and don't want to share what's really bothering them, and it takes a while to get to stuff. Other times people are already great to talk to and have all their questions right there and well thought out. 

I want to work with people, and I love nothing more than talking about this stuff. It's effortless, it energizes me.

What do you mean by "this stuff"?  What does "working with people" mean, exactly?  I mean, it's so vague, it can mean any number of things.  Maybe that's part of the problem I have with "life coaching" it sounds too broad, too much of a catch-all.  I believe more in zeroing in on something and seeing a specialist in that thing.  Do you specialize in something?  Would that be spirituality?  I'm guessing you've worked with a life coach?  What did that entail exactly?

See, I find it odd that people who work with life coaches often decide they want to be life coaches.  It's not like they found some special thing they want to do, they want to do the thing they were just on the other end of.  Shouldn't it theoretically help you find your own "special thing"?  In that way is it not a bit like a pyramid scheme, life coaches coaching other life coaches on and on?  What does that all add up to?  I don't really see how one could claim to know enough about "life" to be a "life coach" it's just way too broad....I think it's a lot more reasonable to specialize in one thing, like I said, if you've legitimately devoted a lot of time to studying one area of life that effects everyone but most people don't have the time to invest looking into, but how can you specialize in "life"? 

Edited by Lester Retsel
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Is It Really “Ok” to Make Money off of Spirituality?  Not really.  Unless, you're coming from an exceptionally developed place for the best karma.  However, every budding or even experienced teacher needs to pay their dues so we do it anyway despite the screwups.  But we and others know all the screwups too when fake-it-to-make-it and being a false prophet was more true than being legit.  And you don't get to decide alone if you're legit, the collective has a say too.  It seems like playing with real fire because if you screw up karma will not be kind to you due to the degree of how your falsehood penetrated the core of others too naïve to know better.  The false prophet is a spiritualized ego that preys on the predilections of others to want a higher meaning and deeper truth to their lives.  People who are truly called to do this, however, should be given a certain range to screw up, but they should be humble enough to not play the know it all unreasonably when they're young on the path.  There's no excuse for acting outside of your competence, and whether you're naive or not, you'll catch shite for doing this as reality (karma) tries to feed you adverse consequences to attempt to get you to correct yourself to grow.

Edited by Joseph Maynor
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10 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

What do you mean by "this stuff"? 

Understanding the guidance of emotions, understanding that separation isn't actual, understanding the nature of thought, opening to intuition, appreciation and the inherent magic in life that we deny ourselves when we believe ourselves to be a finite self. 

10 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

What does "working with people" mean, exactly? 

Just that on a basic level, really. I mean I've worked a very introverted job all my life, and I want to balance that out and work with people.

10 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

 I mean, it's so vague, it can mean any number of things.  Maybe that's part of the problem I have with "life coaching" it sounds too broad, too much of a catch-all.  I believe more in zeroing in on something and seeing a specialist in that thing.  Do you specialize in something?  Would that be spirituality? e in "life"? 

I used the term life coaching because most people know what it's about, but yes it's incredibly broad. I have a youtube channel so if I worked one on one with people it would generally be about the same things I make my videos about. That subject is both incredibly specialized and very broad depending on how you look at it. 

10 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

 I'm guessing you've worked with a life coach?  What did that entail exactly?

No, I wanted to life coach years ago in a more general way, joined groups about it, then spiritual awakening threw that through a huge loop. I have worked with Phil. For example I would not have bothered to do solo retreats without his guidance and those were really hugely helpful for me.  And like I said, I would definitely consult with anyone I liked in any specific area I wanted help with. I like the option of being able to request and pay for someone's time and guidance. At the same time, I think the vast majority of spiritual stuff and even general health or wellbeing  information should be and just naturally are free, forums, blogs, youtube, podcasts, friendships that form on their own, etc. If people want specialized, personal advice they have the option of paying for it. 

 

There's also the element of healing that comes with expression. It's really hard to explain the value of this, and is up to the each in the moment to receive or not. I think this is a big WHY behind spiritual sessions, but it isn't something you can really list as a bullet point or a plus in my opinion, it has to be experienced. Reiki doesn't have to be done physically in person, distance reiki is powerful. It also doesn't need the label. Combine that with the understanding that we already aren't separate and walls break down. 

10 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

Shouldn't it theoretically help you find your own "special thing"?  In that way is it not a bit like a pyramid scheme, life coaches coaching other life coaches on and on?  What does that all add up to? 

I think it's natural to find something that inspires you and to want to do that. I don't think it's different from art or marketing your art. I don't think it's a pyramid scheme at all because time is exchanged. There isn't a hierarchy or overall structure, there's no mass produced product.

10 hours ago, Lester Retsel said:

I don't really see how one could claim to know enough about "life" to be a "life coach" it's just way too broad....I think it's a lot more reasonable to specialize in one thing, like I said, if you've legitimately devoted a lot of time to studying one area of life that effects everyone but most people don't have the time to invest looking into, but how can you specialize in "life"? 

 I agree, but life coaching is just a general term I used because it's a movement right now. 

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6 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

There's no excuse for acting outside of your competence, and whether you're naive or not, you'll catch shite for doing this as reality (karma) tries feed you adverse consequences, attempting to get you to correct yourself to grow.

If you listen to your emotions, you know what you're attracting. It's not just being subject to the effects of it and avoiding it, it's simply understanding the creation of it, how we create karma, how we create now and only now, and how our emotions are directly telling us what we are creating. 

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13 hours ago, Mandy said:

What do you think? 

 

In 'spirituality' everything is so flowing.

 

Honestly it does feel a bit off if someone is selling Reiki or spiritual guidance. If the intention is to make money. It's a different thing if you use the money just to make the living and keep the company running.

 

Though at the same time, like I said, paying is a form of focus, intention, conscious creation. It can be an expression of abundance, and appreciation.

 

Such a hard question.

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